Performance Upgrades 2011

[Brady87GN]

As you can all see by my post count I'm greener then grass when it comes to these cars, I've been spending my time reading and researching here and there is obviously a wealth of knowledge. My question is:

I enjoy my car strictly as a street ride, an alky kit will void my insurance and there are no tracks nearby. As far as getting more out of my car should I be looking at bigger injectors/properly programmed chip or should I be going a step further and look at cams, lifters, etc...

Bottom line is that I know jack squat and I realize my questions are basic. I'm not looking to run 9 sec 1/4's (although it's totally awesome!!) just get the best street manners and a big grin when I punch it. The car is a blast and super quick, my only complaint is that the turbo seems to spool a bit slowly from a dead stop, but then again I have little to compare to.

Looking at my specs I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction so I can put away a little coin over the winter. Appreciate any help and appreciate you guys "coming down" to my basic level. I'm not a dummy, just new to the game. So far I've managed to get 16# boost rolling on at about 30mph, only for a second though, average is about 12-14#.

Thanks fellas!!

 

["Turbo-T"]

How would an alky kit void your insurance????

Don't tell your insurance co. you have it on there...not even so sure they'd even understand what it was for....it's only there to keep detonation down, and that's a good thing. Detonation in a turbo Buick = bad. My 2 cents unless you want to stay at 15 psi, you should make an alky kit a mandatory thing.

Also you do not need a track near by to have an alky kit. There's no tracks near my house, yet I have one. Yes my car is mostly a street car. However I do run a lot more boost than stock thus why I have it. It'll pay for itself the first time your fuel pump can't create enough psi and you start running lean yet manage not to blow a headgasket like I did.

Get yourself a Turbo Tweak chip. Have it burned for your 36 lb injectors. If you were going to run alky I'd say to have it burned for alky too. Since it sounds like you'll never race it, I don't see any need to upgrade injectors...heck I have the same injector and I've raced mine a few times and plan to do some more. (Eventually I'll need to go bigger but not yet)

Also you need to get a Scanmaster if you've not already done so. Even if you don't plan to race it.

 

[Brady87GN]

How would an alky kit void your insurance????

Don't tell your insurance co. you have it on there...not even so sure they'd even understand what it was for....it's only there to keep detonation down, and that's a good thing. Detonation in a turbo Buick = bad. My 2 cents unless you want to stay at 15 psi, you should make an alky kit a mandatory thing.

Also you do not need a track near by to have an alky kit. There's no tracks near my house, yet I have one. Yes my car is mostly a street car. However I do run a lot more boost than stock thus why I have it. It'll pay for itself the first time your fuel pump can't create enough psi and you start running lean yet manage not to blow a headgasket like I did.

Get yourself a Turbo Tweak chip. Have it burned for your 36 lb injectors. If you were going to run alky I'd say to have it burned for alky too. Since it sounds like you'll never race it, I don't see any need to upgrade injectors...heck I have the same injector and I've raced mine a few times and plan to do some more. (Eventually I'll need to go bigger but not yet)

Also you need to get a Scanmaster if you've not already done so. Even if you don't plan to race it.

My insurance company insures classic/street/antique cars specifically and any nitrous or alky kits will void your insurance. They are seperate from my home/auto insurers. I can't really explain it any further but it is quite clearly specified. I suppose what they don't know won't hurt them...

My next step is a Scanmaster and a TT chip. Besides knock I'm starting to understand the need for one. The car runs great on the Red Armstrong however I'm guessing that the TT will allow me to get the most out of the car with the parts/mods I have and the tuning options are nice. I have tried to do research on the current chip but haven't found much.

Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated. I will be completely honest and say I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I bought this car. I was looking at a Monte SS then started taking a hard look at the GN. So far so good but I have lots of learning to do in a big hurry!!!

Andrew

 

[Red C5]

There's a big difference in what you might consider good street manners over someone else. For me to keep a street car fun it just has to have some basic things unless it's a daily driver. Things like being able to run on pump gas ( no alky or race gas required). No overheating, etc.

It also depends on how much you want to spend. You could do exhaust, heads, a proper tune for sure, maybe lighten up the car a bit. You don't always need to add power to make the car faster. Some basic things will lighten the car up and make it much quicker.

 

[GullsGN]

If you really want to spend a few more dollars, then I would add a downpipe and maybe a slight upgrade of the turbo to a TE44. I wouldn't go much further than this for what you want. This is pretty much what mine is and I have been driving it for 23 years and 140k. This is a very reliable combination and quick as hell. It is more than you will ever need on the street, at least within the law:wink::wink: Then you can spend any extra money you have on other goodies like body braces, LED tail lights, stereo and amps, bigger tires, etc, etc, etc.

One thing check on your new ride is the driver side header. Make sure it has been welded near the rear tube. If it hasn't then it needs to be because it is probably cracked. And that annoying noise you hear from the windshield/ dash area, when you hit a bump, especially in the cold, is the little round bumper under the hood. Just put a little grease or oil on it.

 

["Turbo-T"]

My insurance company insures classic/street/antique cars specifically and any nitrous or alky kits will void your insurance. They are seperate from my home/auto insurers. I can't really explain it any further but it is quite clearly specified. I suppose what they don't know won't hurt them...

My next step is a Scanmaster and a TT chip. Besides knock I'm starting to understand the need for one. The car runs great on the Red Armstrong however I'm guessing that the TT will allow me to get the most out of the car with the parts/mods I have and the tuning options are nice. I have tried to do research on the current chip but haven't found much.

Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated. I will be completely honest and say I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I bought this car. I was looking at a Monte SS then started taking a hard look at the GN. So far so good but I have lots of learning to do in a big hurry!!!

Andrew

What insurance co. you going thru?

I've got Hagerty, and they've never asked any questions.

I think you will like the GN better than the MCSS.....Monte's are nice, but stock they never really had an engine that was worth anything. The GN at least has some pep to it.

 

[blackgn1]

I really like my alky! Boost=Horsepower!:biggrin: Street power is different for everyone. My street car is over 500hp!

 

[Brady87GN]

What insurance co. you going thru?

I've got Hagerty, and they've never asked any questions.

I think you will like the GN better than the MCSS.....Monte's are nice, but stock they never really had an engine that was worth anything. The GN at least has some pep to it.

It's called Silver Wheels, specialty insurance.

Yeah, I looked at a few Monte's with a 350 upgrade instead of the 305, but I have absolutely no regrets. Fun stuff!!

 

[Brady87GN]

I really like my alky! Boost=Horsepower!:biggrin: Street power is different for everyone. My street car is over 500hp!

OK, here is another dumb question: is alky manually triggered or does it kick in at a certain RPM?? I guess that street power and speed are all relative, I might only be a few HP over stock. 500 HP?? awesome!! :smile:

 

[jasjamz]

Most around here use a progressive alky kit from Julio, aka Razor. Alkycontrol is his stuff and it reads boost pressure/voltage from the map sensor to add in methanol. I'd switch insurance company's cause alky is fun and great for a street car.

I think if I had your car I would do a 2800 stall lockup style converter, fresh trans rebuild by a known turbo buick trans guy, alky,Turbo tweak chip, any injectors bigger than stock, 235/60/15 drag radials, pypes exhaust, valve springs, timing chain, spring cleaning( buicks recipe to whip the car back into good health) Ta-49 Turbo, duttweiler neck on the stock intercooler, 3 in downpipe, oil ,water, boost and wideband that shows through the scanmaster/powerlogger setup.

Then you just have to repair the bank account damage, find a new lady love since the current one may break camp. Remind the baby boy that the car is not broke you're just making it faster and that the policemen like to talk to you about how nice the car is.:wink:

 

[Timbuick]

I find that alky is just common sense. Given the unreliability of contemporary fuels, alky = insurance.
I told my insurance company that alky was necessary with modern fuels to suppress detonation. They were fine.

 

[Brady87GN]

Most around here use a progressive alky kit from Julio, aka Razor. Alkycontrol is his stuff and it reads boost pressure/voltage from the map sensor to add in methanol. I'd switch insurance company's cause alky is fun and great for a street car.

I think if I had your car I would do a 2800 stall lockup style converter, fresh trans rebuild by a known turbo buick trans guy, alky,Turbo tweak chip, any injectors bigger than stock, 235/60/15 drag radials, pypes exhaust, valve springs, timing chain, spring cleaning( buicks recipe to whip the car back into good health) Ta-49 Turbo, duttweiler neck on the stock intercooler, 3 in downpipe, oil ,water, boost and wideband that shows through the scanmaster/powerlogger setup.

Then you just have to repair the bank account damage, find a new lady love since the current one may break camp. Remind the baby boy that the car is not broke you're just making it faster and that the policemen like to talk to you about how nice the car is.:wink:

That is awesome advice, I really appreciate it!! So I'll start looking into an alky kit and maybe upgrade to the 42lb injector/TT alky chip combo. Scanmaster is a must, I need to understand these cars and their tendencies a LOT better.

My wife is warming up to the car, so hopefully by next spring upgrades wont be an issue. She is an awesome gal. FWIW, daddy IS a policeman so it's all good!!

 

[Timbuick]

FWIW I have 38ib injectors, stock I/C and turbo and can run 18-20lbs of boost + alky without problem. If you must uprate injectors, probably worth going straight to 60ib for the next inevitable state of tune!

 

[Brady87GN]

FWIW I have 38ib injectors, stock I/C and turbo and can run 18-20lbs of boost + alky without problem. If you must uprate injectors, probably worth going straight to 60ib for the next inevitable state of tune![/QUOT

Is there any immediate benefit to swapping out the stock MAF and replacing along with a Translator?? Or is this done in combination with other upgrades/mods??

 

[jasjamz]

You can use multipe different mass air flow sensors with the translator. They may give you a better idle but no overall boost in performance(HP). The stock ones are fine when they are working. Now when they unexpectedly go out they are not cheap. Also, the remans from the parts stores are a crap shoot. If its working leave it but get the translator and MAF setup when you can. I haven't had a stocker leave me stranded but it wasnt a fun "limp" home when they went bad.

 

[Brady87GN]

You can use multipe different mass air flow sensors with the translator. They may give you a better idle but no overall boost in performance(HP). The stock ones are fine when they are working. Now when they unexpectedly go out they are not cheap. Also, the remans from the parts stores are a crap shoot. If its working leave it but get the translator and MAF setup when you can. I haven't had a stocker leave me stranded but it wasnt a fun "limp" home when they went bad.

OK, good to know. My car idles wonderfully, a slight rev and maybe a bit rich on a cold start for the first 5-7 seconds then it settles right down. I've never had that anxiety of wondering if it's going to die at a red light, it never chugs or hesitates. That is reassuring.

Next question: A performance cam and lifter set is a relatively inexpensive purchase, could I expect some extra street performance or is it more of a drag strip upgrade?? The alky kit is possibly my next step but it aint cheap and I'm not too sure about the availability of quality alky around here, (I have to drive 40 minutes to gas up with 94 octane...) I also need a good performance shop to do the install, I have a trusted family of mechanics but I'm not sure if high performance stuff is their game.

Wish list so far:
1- Alky kit (Razor of course)
2- 42lb injectors/TT chip combo
3- 3" downpipe
4- A gas station close to my house that pumps 94

Secondary wish list:
1- Performance cam, lifters, timing chain
2- Some porting/polishing work (God, I wish I was handy...)
3- Maybe a turbo upgrade down the road

Any more thoughts/suggestions?? Thanks again for the replies and advice and thanks for taking the time to educate a Turbo Buick noobie!! :biggrin:

 

[Timbuick]

I'd install wish list one and then work on the tune and know the car. Speaking from experience, that is a process in itself.
I've had my GN a year now and it's taken about all of that and this site to get me to a state of tune i'm happy with i.e zero knock under boost. TT 5.6 chip, hot wire and alky were the most important purchases for that process.

 

[jlat]

hello peoples; I think people are forgetting this is a very low mileage 87 TB. I'd say a state of the art chip, air intake, upgraded exhaust, and I'd get a good set of Z rated ties and that's about it for a while.. Oh ya some sort of scan tool. If the car was taken care of I believe every thing else shoud be good. Probably change all the fluids.
have fun and there alot you can do to these cars. Don't get caught up in it and I believe your better off. It's happening to me.
IBBY

 

[turbo nasty]

First thing...Get a goal and then work to it.

Leave the stock cam and lifters in there leave the stock heads on there you can run 11's all day with all that stuff bone stock!!

If the timing set has never been replaced, replace it simply due to age the cam gear on the timing set can be cracked due to age and the teeth fail and the engine will go into a overlap situation and ...rebuild time. Also replace Valve springs while you are at it Comp cam 979's is all thats needed.

Fuel pump and hotwire
TT Chip and INJ go with 55 lbs or better and be done, adj fuel psi regulator and gauge (don't mount gauge on rail run flex and place elsewhere)
Scantool (scanmaster)
Boost gauge, knock gauge

Car running PERFECT/tune up. No overheat, tip in stumble, cold start stalling, belching black smoke, service engine, good oil psi, etc.

Learn the car and do your homework search read repeat. REPEAT LEARN THE CAR.
Dont be the guy with 47 gauges and such and clueless on whats what!!!

Know what the tps, IAC, BLM, O2s, etc etc are supposed to be where to set, how to set, target, what affects what.

Once that is good THEN GET UPGRADES like Alky, exh, CAI, etc.

W/O alky and all stock with a good 93 chip (TT for example) with any decent timing your max boost in moderate humidity and temps 16-17 psi is about it 16 is more realistic. IMO forced L/U at WOT in the chip is a no no and will kill the TCC overtime..been there done that.

Stock turbo, stock IC, Stock downpipe, test pipe, hooker 2.5 or better exh, CAI, Fuel system addressed, alky, good biting drag tire and 24 psi tuned low 12's all day!

If you want to change the turbo be on the conservative side. Lag will frustrate you especially in a street car

 

[jasjamz]

I agree wish list one is what I would do with the addition of a few things that will make traction and tuning easier. The cams you are looking at are not needed or recommended at this point. I would never tell someone to use a flat tappet instead of a hydraulic roller unless I deeply despise them for some reason. If and when the flat tappet goes bad they send fine metal through the engine and end up causing a complete rebuild.

I think if you continue to read here, use the search function, read old post by respected and knowledgeable members you will have great overall experience with the car. Not to put him on the spot but member Kevin B went from a mid nine second TSM class car back to a simple stock type car and seems to be having a ball. Check him out. TurboBuRick and Dr.Boost are my local problem chasers and Bison, RUQWKNUF (Patrick Rubio) are some been there tried that guys with a lot of post. Grumpy is a mellow guy that can keep you from buying stuff you don't need but can motivate you to work with what you have so far. I have been chasing the numbers laid down by his daughter for 3 going on 4 years. Stop laughing, I'm not the only one!

Your mechanic choice is not to hard. They should be great parts changers and neat workers. You do the tuning and road testing. We need to come up with a 25 question quiz on this board to see if they qualify to touch the car. I have seen some hacks and some that could amaze you, but those are far and few.