please help hard brake pedal

[rp1329]

Im in michigan and woodward dream cruise weekend and my brakes decided to take a dump on me the pedal is very hard to press any ideas of how i can get it fixed and back on the road by tonight
thanks

 

[1quick6]

If you have a hard pedal, it is usually the accumulator leaking pressure. Is your brake warning light coming on and do you hear the powermaster motor kicking on quite often for a few seconds at a time?

 

[rp1329]

yes, both the clicking and the light went on as soon as the pedal got hard to press

 

[1quick6]

Classic signs of the accumulator then. If the motor isn't running excessively long (like more than 12 seconds or so), it is just trying to charge the accumulator up and the accumulator is bleeding off the pressure quickly. This is why the motor is constantly trying to charge it.

Your fluid level is ok? I'm also curious if your pressure switch is black (old style) or gray (new style)

 

[rp1329]

thanks so much for the info ill be checking it as soon as i get home any idea of where i can get a accumilater ball from autozone, oreilly

 

[1quick6]

Well, you won't want to hear this but I really doubt ANY auto parts store carries it. Kirban Performance has them mail order.

It just isn't a common enough part for auto parts shops to stock.

Autozone does show it on their website, though.
Cardone Reman/Brake Power Booster
For your 1987 Buick Regal 3.8L SFI OHV Turbo 6cyl Part Number: 52-9702ACC
(edit: that can't be right. $309????)

 

[GSX-PKV]

Just got one from Kirbans this week. Great service from them! Ordered Monday and it was delivered Weds. As a longshot for today, I wonder what other cars have a Powermaster systems... and maybe one could be found in a junkyard?

Well, you won't want to hear this but I really doubt ANY auto parts store carries it. Kirban Performance has them mail order.

It just isn't a common enough part for auto parts shops to stock.

Autozone does show it on their website, though.
Cardone Reman/Brake Power Booster
For your 1987 Buick Regal 3.8L SFI OHV Turbo 6cyl Part Number: 52-9702ACC
(edit: that can't be right. $309????)

 

[HI85WH1]

Well, you won't want to hear this but I really doubt ANY auto parts store carries it. Kirban Performance has them mail order.

It just isn't a common enough part for auto parts shops to stock.

Autozone does show it on their website, though.
Cardone Reman/Brake Power Booster
For your 1987 Buick Regal 3.8L SFI OHV Turbo 6cyl Part Number: 52-9702ACC
(edit: that can't be right. $309????)

youre better off buying the whole reman unit for 573.99

 

["Turbo-T"]

I wonder what other cars have a Powermaster systems... and maybe one could be found in a junkyard?

I believe the 1986-87 Caprice wagon also used the PM....as for finding one in a boneyard, good luck.

 

[Roger]

I changed mine over to the 84/85 hydroboost. It is much more reliable & currently manufactured / used on almost all diesel trucks & vans that do not use air brakes. Stops on a dime & gives 9 cents change (I stole that from another board member, but it is true)

 

[Jack Black]

Brake accumulator?

Hello, this is my first post.

I just discovered that my '87 GN's (33k miles) brakes aren't acting right. The brake light flashes upon application and the boost appears to be weak, absent or sporadic (I nearly hit the car in front of me the first time).

I gather that I should use the GM diagnostics posted here to check by repeatedly applying the brakes with the ignition off, then on (I have the GM service manual, but it fills about two cartons), to see how/if the booster motor runs. But I thought that the motor I heard running when the ignition was first turned on was the fuel pump. Should I charge the fuel system first, then turn off the ignition and apply the brakes to deplete the accumulator?

My main question is, is it safe to drive the car until I get this resolved, even though I may have to stand on the brakes?

If it ends up being the accumulator, is my best option the replacement from Kirban?

(I had no idea that this was a problem with these cars; I haven't had my GN on the road in 6 years. If this is a common problem, would not running the car for an extended period have anything to do with it?).

Thanks.

Jack

 

[L8TRH8R]

Every time mine sits for the winter I have the issue of hard pedal and brake light. Usually within 30-45 minutes the light goes off and brakes are fine again.... If there is a trick to get the brakes to come back to life quicker i'd like to know as well!!!

 

[1quick6]

Accumulators definitely do not like to sit around idle.

 

[1quick6]

Hello, this is my first post.

I just discovered that my '87 GN's (33k miles) brakes aren't acting right. The brake light flashes upon application and the boost appears to be weak, absent or sporadic (I nearly hit the car in front of me the first time).

I gather that I should use the GM diagnostics posted here to check by repeatedly applying the brakes with the ignition off, then on (I have the GM service manual, but it fills about two cartons), to see how/if the booster motor runs. But I thought that the motor I heard running when the ignition was first turned on was the fuel pump. Should I charge the fuel system first, then turn off the ignition and apply the brakes to deplete the accumulator?

My main question is, is it safe to drive the car until I get this resolved, even though I may have to stand on the brakes?

If it ends up being the accumulator, is my best option the replacement from Kirban?

(I had no idea that this was a problem with these cars; I haven't had my GN on the road in 6 years. If this is a common problem, would not running the car for an extended period have anything to do with it?).

Thanks.

Jack

You are describing the classic signs of the accumulator going bad and yes, Kirban is the best source for replacements right now. I definitely would not drive the car until you address that issue or you will be kissing the back bumper of the car ahead of you. Even if you know in advance you have to stand on it to stop, that won't help in an emergency braking situation.

Accumulators do not like to sit around and they have a short shelf life as a result.

 

[HI85WH1]

Hello, this is my first post.

I just discovered that my '87 GN's (33k miles) brakes aren't acting right. The brake light flashes upon application and the boost appears to be weak, absent or sporadic (I nearly hit the car in front of me the first time).

I gather that I should use the GM diagnostics posted here to check by repeatedly applying the brakes with the ignition off, then on (I have the GM service manual, but it fills about two cartons), to see how/if the booster motor runs. But I thought that the motor I heard running when the ignition was first turned on was the fuel pump. Should I charge the fuel system first, then turn off the ignition and apply the brakes to deplete the accumulator?

My main question is, is it safe to drive the car until I get this resolved, even though I may have to stand on the brakes?

If it ends up being the accumulator, is my best option the replacement from Kirban?

(I had no idea that this was a problem with these cars; I haven't had my GN on the road in 6 years. If this is a common problem, would not running the car for an extended period have anything to do with it?).

Thanks.

Jack

Do NOT drive the car until you have taken care of the issue.

Someone needs to manufacture a accumulator ball that is rechargable.

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks, guys. This site is a great resource; I would never have known about how widespread this problem is and would have gone to the nearest Buick/GM dealer for the part.

So I guess I'll order it from Kirban (now $179.95 plus shipping).

Hey L8TRH8R, mine isn't just a transient problem; while the severity of it waxes and wanes (I guess as the accumulator gets partially charged), it doesn't appear to be going away.

Jack

 

[HI85WH1]

LOL... its been a problem since GM first used it!

Mine had fast cycle occasional brake light flash, but always stopped, until the pump stopped running... boy was THAT an adventure.

If someone were to make a rechargeable accumulator that would fix most of the issues!

 

[POWERBRAKEBOB]

Powermaster motors

The weakest link in the entire GN brake system is that electric motor/pump. It uses Phenolic vanes because steel vanes will not live against the ring pumping Brake fluid under high pressure. Brake fluid is NOT an oil, and has no lubrication for the vanes. The phenolics wear out quickly. The seal between the pump and the 12V windings usually goes first. When the windings flood with brake fluid, the fuse pops. System is dying, and will not heal itself. TYhe Powermaster cylinder itself is not the problem. The accumulator, switch and motor is a constant failure process. That is why I have recommended the Hydroboost for years. They can last over 25 years and produce up to 2000psi to the calipers. They are rebuildable, and the MASTER is easliy replaceable by anyone. NO ONE here, with an 84-85 car has ever complained about their brakes.

 

[Jack Black]

It took only a few minutes to change out the accumulator, and normal braking operation has been restored (previously, it was stopping like a Toyota).

The car has only 32,000 miles on it, so I should be okay for a while.

I also had to replace the battery (the third one in 23 years), the hood struts, the front tires (the original rubber on this car wore like a pencil eraser) and recharge the A/C.

 

[GullsGN]

It took only a few minutes to change out the accumulator, and normal braking operation has been restored (previously, it was stopping like a Toyota).

The car has only 32,000 miles on it, so I should be okay for a while.

I also had to replace the battery (the third one in 23 years), the hood struts, the front tires (the original rubber on this car wore like a pencil eraser) and recharge the A/C.

32k? Sweet! Have you welded the crack in the driver side headder yet?