Red's vs Racetronix double pumper Q's?

[SpeeednV6]

I'm trying to make an educated purchase. True, there are lots of info. on here. I know, I joined back around 2003 and things have evolved. I've been away from GN's for about 6 years. I am reading about what people are doing now and trying to get real life feedback on what has been tried and true.
* Injectors: sizes are all across the board to get into the ten's. I have switched 4 times. 120's cost as much as lower flowing injectors.
* Turbos: A TE44 will do 10's. I had one, sold it, now I have a larger turbo. Now there are sooo many to choose from.
* Fuel pumps: a single XP has been there. I have a POS walbro FS#### that has berely been used. Now there's the DW, Aero Stealth, and other singles that could supply into the 10's.
* Fuel lines: to change or not change due to E85? Many have, many have not. Lots of controversy here. My lines are corroded.

So...as you can see, ther are many variables to the tale. The ultimate goal is to have a fast street car to be proud of with out throwing alot of money out the window. I used to sell fuel pressure gauges here on the board. I know how much stuff costs and how much people charge for "go fast stuff" because of that nature. True...ask people for their opinions...I do and am. Problem is what works for one, doesn't always apply to another. I listen to the concensus and make decisions from there. I build fast elevators for a living...not race cars

 

[forcefed3.8's]

HAHAHA. Man i love this forum.

Anybody that knows Red's pumps knows better. That is why I said ask anybody who has tested them. Red's pumps are better, and his fitting flows more. Will you see the difference on a low 10 sec car, no, I ran an old ATR set up into the 9's, with plenty of fuel to spare. But what do I know???

 

[Racetronix]

Anybody that knows Red's pumps knows better. That is why I said ask anybody who has tested them. Red's pumps are better, and his fitting flows more. Will you see the difference on a low 10 sec car, no, I ran an old ATR set up into the 9's, with plenty of fuel to spare. But what do I know???

There are other vendors on here (Mike @ FTR) who have addressed this 'XP' claim numerous times but people here seem to enjoy living in their bubble of ignorant bliss. Please explain to the populus here how a sealed factory pump can be modified to provide any substancial improvements. Apart from flowing/hand selecting pumps and blocking the bypass valve there is nothing to be done. People here will pay a premium for something that can be done in their own garage.

Our new coupler has bigger channels and our SS sender is a NEW CUSTOM piece with better flowing lines / no tapers / better bends. We are not using factory senders!

Red's XP DP Sender specs published on GNTTYPE.ORG:
344LPH @ 50PSI @ 13.0V
394LPH @ 50PSI @ 13.0V
428LPH @ 50PSI @ 13.0V

250LPH @ 80PSI @ 13.0V
299LPH @ 80PSI @ 14.0V
341LPH @ 80PSI @ 15.0V

Racetronix DP system:
These are the typical specs with two modified Walbro GSS294M 255LPH pumps:
500LPH @ 43.5PSI @ 13.5V @ 15.9A
425LPH @ 58.0PSI @ 13.5V @ 18.5A
625LPH @ 43.5PSI @ 16.0V @ 17.6A
577LPH @ 58.0PSI @ 16.0V @ 20.6A
345LPH @ 80.0PSI @ 13.5V @ 23.4A
432LPH @ 80.0PSI @ 16.0V @ 26.2A

These are the typical specs with two Aeromotive 340LPH pumps:
43.5psi @ 13.5v @ 23.8A 2.75gpm 625LPH
58.0psi @ 13.5v @ 25.8A 2.49gpm 566LPH
80.0psi @ 13.5v @ 28.7A 2.07gpm 470LPH
58.0psi @ 16.0v @ 31.8A 3.20gpm 727LPH
43.5psi @ 16.0v @ 28.8A 3.43gpm 779LPH

 

[NCTURBOS]

The most conclusive, un-biased single fuel pump bench testing I've seen done on fuel pumps pointed to the product coming out of N. Olmsted, Ohio being far above & beyond the rest!!

However, since we're talking about DP's here... How about tried, trued, track testing since you can't hide any VooDoo there?!?! Anyone faster than the White Racing machine with Red's DP going low 8's? Or how about literally hundreds of units being sold to date? I know I've installed probably 25+ units myself since I started in the Buick game back in 1993, w/o any issues to date.

Just my .02

K.

 

[Racetronix]

The most conclusive, un-biased single fuel pump bench testing I've seen done on fuel pumps pointed to the product coming out of N. Olmsted, Ohio being far above & beyond the rest!!
Just my .02 K.

As if, that statement is not biased.

There is ALWAYS room for improvement, which is the case here.
We will put our DP system up against Red's anytime.
We have had DP's out in the f-body and Corvette market for over 10 years.
Many of these cars make between 800-1200HP to the wheels and run 8's at 160+MPH.
Lonnie's Performance has sold over 2,000 RX DP systems to date.

We have already sold over 200 TR DP's since their release a few months ago.

NCTURBOS, if you have a working relationship with Red and he gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling then stick with his product.
We suspect as time goes on more TR customers will post their success with our DP systems and Red's DP will become a footnote in history.



Our new 386LPH and 416LPH E85-certified pump with SS sender/mount will be out in a few weeks!

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Never on this thread has anyone said you have a bad product. You were bashing Red's product. Both will work fine. Yours has alot of extra wiring and relays. If I bought every hotwire kit you sell and claim you need, my engine compartment would be all relays with room for nothing else. You started the bashing. Now the professional thing to say would be, Red's works, and does the job, but ours is worth the extra money because......... Now it is nice to have a vendor selling these plug and play harnesses, and yours are nice. I understand he is a supporting vendor, he has the right to sell his products. I don't think it gives the right to bash another product that works fine, now if it was junk, that would be another story. I think Red and his products have proven themselves over the years.

 

[Racetronix]

Never on this thread has anyone said you have a bad product. You were bashing Red's product. Both will work fine. Yours has alot of extra wiring and relays. If I bought every hotwire kit you sell and claim you need, my engine compartment would be all relays with room for nothing else. You started the bashing. Now the professional thing to say would be, Red's works, and does the job, but ours is worth the extra money because......... Now it is nice to have a vendor selling these plug and play harnesses, and yours are nice. I understand he is a supporting vendor, he has the right to sell his products. I don't think it gives the right to bash another product that works fine, now if it was junk, that would be another story. I think Red and his products have proven themselves over the years.

Claim you need? It is whatever the customer wants / deems required.
Our relays are in the back not the front!
Tell us about Red's harness or even better yet post pics to help educate customers as to what they are getting.

 

[williamsGN]

You were bashing Red's product.

That seems to be their S.O.P.

 

[Racetronix]

If you consider calling one out on technical claims 'bashing' so be it!
You still did not answer the question above.

Please explain to the populus here how a sealed factory Walbro pump can be modified to provide any substantial performance improvements?

What does the XP DP come with, what are the specs. and price?

Can someone post pictures of the XP DP system?

 

[bison]

This thread is getting ridiculous. If the posts dont revolve around tech then i will start deleting posts and lock the thread. So if you arent posting tech or actual results with documentation such as voltages, lines used, which hanger, and how much power was made/mph then dont post here. Opinions dont mean shit here.

 

[HelloBozos]

I did see a picture of the Red's unit and the wiring looks beefier than Racetronix. I'm afraid that if I purchase a TT340, or a DW that it still won't be enough fuel. I do plan on getting rid of the 60 lber's for 80's, 95's, or even 120's. I do use a Red's voltbooster and 14.4 is max voltage with a 140 amp alt.

Your where you'll be at on Fueling.....
One Single will do the job,(Larger then stock pump,Hot wired,Volt boosted)
But a Double is Truly needed at WOT. (an rather not add a angrey beehive sounding External)
I'm about maxed as you can go with stock block. (only using 72's inj. for fuel economy)
I've built my build for more expectations later in time (Stage II )

Question for the readers: Where's a link to where Red's DP unit can be bought complete???

I like Racetronix's unit,same basic thing but Easier Found with a Price!!!

Enjoy!

 

[williamsGN]

deleted by admin. for link to non supporting vendor.

 

[SGRIM]

)

Please buy from vendors that support this board!

 

[WH1_T-Type]

Saw an interesting thread about the customer service at racetronix a bit so here on the forum.

I suggest you read that thread.

 

[coach]

Please buy from vendors that support this board!

That's the norm Shane, but the Racetronix member did just start "Bashing" Red's pump...for no reason. You and Bison both know Im not going to start any trouble, but just being a supporting vendor does not give you sole rights to put down your competition. Point out the benefits of your product without "Bashing" the other guy and thats fine. If your sales pitch doesnt sell your product...then it wasnt the right part for that customer. Edelbrock doesnt point out all their features on their commercials and then at the end say..."Oh and Weiand intakes suck and are less superior then ours in every way, shape and form." It's not good business and its not a good way for us reading Racetronix posts to get a sense of what kind of business they are.
This is how I see it...without Red's search for making better parts...there would be no double pumper...which means there DEF would be no Racetronix double pumper. In order to make it, they had to have something to copy, and they did. If they improved on it...that's great for us as the users, but they had to start somewhere.

 

[Racetronix]

We asked that some technical FACTS be validated instead of this veil of mystery that continually surrounds said product. Racetronix is not the only vendor who has pointed this out and will not be the last. If people view such technically intrusive questions as an attack on Red then perhaps, they should ask themselves why. Comparative marketing is nothing new so deal with it. In so far as, people on this forum claiming certain vendors are the mother of certain inventions perhaps they should not make such statements without knowing the facts. Much has transpired outside of and before the Buick community and internet became of age. There is much that led up to the creation of Racetronix dating back to the mid 80's. Red is not the first person to make a dual in-tank system nor is John the first person to make harnesses. Bestowing these questionable achievements on a particular vendor does not necessarily buy them credibility. One has to wonder why certain Buick products have not evolved for 20+ years.

It is obvious that statements in this thread are politically motivated by virtue of people's relationships with certain vendors. By their own admission, they view Racetronix as the new kid on the block that must wait in line for their stamp of approval. Racetronix does not intend to try to sway such people away from their firm beliefs/alliances nor should they expect us to subscribe to their perception of protectionist politically correct marketing. This would be a futile effort. However, we will continue to explain the advantages of our products and if required draw comparisons to the benefit of those customers with open minds.

The ongoing evolution of Racetronix product is a testament to continued commitment to raise the bar in order to provide better performance and value to our customers.

 

[QWKRTNU]

Sub

 

[coach]

We asked that some technical FACTS be validated instead of this veil of mystery that continually surrounds said product. Racetronix is not the only vendor who has pointed this out and will not be the last. If people view such technically intrusive questions as an attack on Red then perhaps, they should ask themselves why. Comparative marketing is nothing new so deal with it. In so far as, people on this forum claiming certain vendors are the mother of certain inventions perhaps they should not make such statements without knowing the facts. Much has transpired outside of and before the Buick community and internet became of age. There is much that led up to the creation of Racetronix dating back to the mid 80's. Red is not the first person to make a dual in-tank system nor is John the first person to make harnesses. Bestowing these questionable achievements on a particular vendor does not necessarily buy them credibility. One has to wonder why certain Buick products have not evolved for 20+ years.

It is obvious that statements in this thread are politically motivated by virtue of people's relationships with certain vendors. By their own admission, they view Racetronix as the new kid on the block that must wait in line for their stamp of approval. Racetronix does not intend to try to sway such people away from their firm beliefs/alliances nor should they expect us to subscribe to their perception of protectionist politically correct marketing. This would be a futile effort. However, we will continue to explain the advantages of our products and if required draw comparisons to the benefit of those customers with open minds.

The ongoing evolution of Racetronix product is a testament to continued commitment to raise the bar in order to provide better performance and value to our customers.

Your not asking Red...your asking said customers...who may or may not have the correct info to give. I dont think anyone said your product was not good. I bet its great. The remark was like this...I make suspensions...custom suspensions. I dont sell them here. If another suspension vendor were to start to pick apart my suspensions and my customers were defending me and I were not defending myself...then its not up to me to provide any info on how they are built or what is used. Keep arguing, I wouldnt care. Red is headed for 80 years old from what I understand. If he hasnt provided any info to date...he is going to the grave with it. First or not...as for the credibility...he has had some damn fast guys with his parts.

Thank you for your product and your continuing advancement to make our cars better.

 

[SpeeednV6]

My post was to determine, thru user experience, performance differences between the two. Red's unit is proven, no doubt. I've ordered injectors from Racetronix in the past and will continue to do so. The Racetronix unit looks very nice, almost too nice to put into a tank, as some suggested. I'm trying to get feedback to validate paying over $150 for the Racetronix unit. Price doesn't seem much...but it sure can buy more corn in the tank

 

[Boost231]

side by side racetronix kit looks so much better. Just from that alone i would spend the extra $$$ and get theirs. Reds might work but its out dated IMOP.