Roller vs. Flat Tappet

[86 TR]

Is there a big difference in performance gains when going from a flat tappet camshaft to a hydraulic roller?? I am rebuilding my engine this winter and bought some ported heads, intake for it already. I was running a 210-205 buick club cam with gm lifters for about 2 years. It made good power a little noisy though.

Would I see moderate performance gains with the roller with the ported heads or should I just leave the flat tappet in it??

Ive never had a problem with the flat tappets eating cam lobes in my car, so I know I could make another one work. The only thing is, that I could buy another flat tappet with lifters for about the quarter of the cost of a hydraulic roller.

What do you guys think???

 

[86 TR]

Oh, and what roller cam would be good for street manners. I would like this car to get into 10's once in a while. I suppose I will have to upgrade my converter too. Right now its just a orange stripe from the buick club.

 

[boostingbuick]

There is a small performace gain with a roller cam. I went with a roller cam due to the fact I lost two engines from cam lobes getting ground off. The roller cam is a big investment and my be just a noisy. Mine almost sound like a soild lifter cam. Not too bad but there is a bit of noise present. But with the cost of the roller could buy other go fast goodies insteed.

 

[Black Power]

There is a small performace gain with a roller cam. I went with a roller cam due to the fact I lost two engines from cam lobes getting ground off. The roller cam is a big investment and my be just a noisy. Mine almost sound like a soild lifter cam. Not too bad but there is a bit of noise present. But with the cost of the roller could buy other go fast goodies insteed.

Well put. Here is what I think. If you have the money to do the roller AND that money spent won't keep you from doing something else to your car that you also want I.E. front mount, better converter, bigger turbo, tires, etc. then do the roller. Or if the roller is going to put you in debt and cause a divorce, don't do it. Unless she's ugly and hates Buicks

Flat tappets aren't great, but if you keep an eye on em during break in you should be fine.

All this being said I am doing a flat tappet on my 4.1 and waiting until I can afford to drop 800 bucks someday on a roller....or 7 grand on a nasty lsX :biggrin:

 

[wickedtt]

Roller comp cam 212/212 is great cam

 

[ThatDamGoldCar]

Wiped #3 exhaust lobe on Sealed Powerless cam after 300 miles...go roller

 

[quickt]

Flat Tappets?? Been there and done that myself years ago. I took out engine 2 times with both cams cost me thousands. I installed roller when they were $1500 and problems were gone. Now roller kits are much less expensive. What is the true savings flat v/s roller? $200 cam $80 lifters (decent ones) $50 t-chain and gears. Over all say $300-400 for flat tappet $800 roller. Roller kit has springs, retainers, locks, t-chain, cam , lifters. Find $400 in your budget to get a piece of mind. It could cost you much more in the long run. What will you save if cam takes out engine even once. Roller might not be as quiet. Maybe very little performance gain. Check out this sight there have been many get cheep on this issue. Some get away with it and some don't. If I were to guess I would say your luck on success 50%.

 

[Steve]

Over the years I had built 3 different engines in various turbo Buicks I have had and I have always run flat tappet cams, and so far no problems. The roller would be piece of mind as far as wiping a cam lobe but I just could'nt justify the cost when I was putting my motors together. I do run the high ZDDP content oil like the cam grinders recommended and I do think that helps. I've saved enough on the three motors by using a falt tappet cams for a "free" short block freshening now!:biggrin:

 

[Rodney87GN]

I wiped out the #3 exhaust lobe on my Ruggles 210/205 cam. I'm going with a 210/215 roller now, why risk it. Quickt said it well in regards to cost. After rebuilding a motor an extra 400 isn't much if you look at the big picture. Plus you don't need to worry about playing the oil additive circus.

 

[turboclam]

Go 212-212 or 210-210 roller!

Not worth the trouble. I personally have wiped two flat tappet cams that ironically went........... flat. Ruggles 205-214, Comp 206-206, My buddy's Comp 218-218 died at start up and I saw a Reed 224-224 not last 500 miles. Tried the correct break in procedure and Rotella oil after break in. All engines were primed the same day when started and had good oil pressure. Soaked all the lifters for a month before start up. Whew! Getting stressed just thinking about it.

 

[GSX-PKV]

I have a Comp 210 210 roller cam and mine is reasonably quiet. I sometimes forget it has a roller cam. With my combo, I get 19 mpg with occasional "spirited" driving.

 

[Shaun Tiede]

The Hyd Roller has a longer peak acceleration rate on the opening ramp. He Flat Tappet will have a faster initial peak rate. For the money you will spend in the upgrade process, I feel that you will be disappointed.

If you really wish to wake the thing up in a very significant way, try a solid flat tappet or solid roller. For the money, you will not beat the solid flat tappet. Just be sure that you use a True break in oil as the shelf oils are virtually depleted of ZDP and you will have a very strong chance of a lobe failure in a few minutes.

So long as you have the rocker arms adjusted and locked down with a good adjustable system available from at least a couple of sources, you will not have any ongoing lash issues, and you can set the lash a little tighter. This will give you a nice and quiet valvetrain which will be very rpm stable. You can run a decent valve spring with a good lock, and the engine will have no issues running to 7,000+RPM. At least nothing in the valve train will hold it back.

I truly believe that spending the money on a good adjustable shaft mount rocker arm system along with a stiff pushrod is not only money well spent, it will also open the door to cams with much more aggressive opening ramps then you'll get with any Hydraulic profile.

You will also find the engine will make much more power with a good solid flat tappet with equal boost than it will a Hydraulic. It will also be much more responsive. You can go from mild to wild on profile specs depending on your goals. You'll likely have to give it more fuel at WOT as it will move more air.

Depending on your turbo and your goals, I can give you a couple of suggestions for lobes that will work fantastic. If you are not going to convert to an adjustable valve train, then I can share with you a couple of Hydraulic lobes that will suit you as good as you can expect out of any Hydraulic cam.

So long as you spend the time setting up the fuel and timing curves, I promise you that the right solid flat tappet will TOTALLY transform the car for you. Will also have a much wider power band.

 

[BlackBandit]

Flat tappets aren't great, but if you keep an eye on em during break in you should be fine.

I disagree with this. If I was building a SBC then yes, but not a Buick motor. I will never run another flat tappet in one of these again. My last one was fine and then out of the blue at around 8-9k miles (I'd have to look to be exact) it just wiped two lobes and trashed the engine. I would never be able to run a flat tappet cam in one of these engines without constantly worrying that it was about to junk the engine. I'll pay $400 dollars to eliminate that kind of worry. That's my two cents. james

 

[Shaun Tiede]

BTW: Rotella has the ZDP robbed out of it now, too.

 

[SNOWBIRD]

Paul V ,,what Preload Do You Run On Your 210 210 Cc Roller Lifters,,i Find Mine A Bit Noisy ,i Use 15 40 Rotella ,,,,,,but I Did Notice When I Did A Engine Flush With A Cheap 10 30 The Valve Action Noise Was Not As Bad Any Comments My Preload Is About .025 I Know It Should Be .040......i Guess I Am Looking For Perfection

 

[SNOWBIRD]

Also When I Worked In A Buick Dealership In The Seventies All Crated Long Or Short Blocks Had 1 Or 2 Cans Of Eos In The Crate ...wipeing Out Cam Lobes Is Not New Especialy With The Higher Spring Rates

 

[Boost231]

if your running the proper oil and supplement the flat tappet will last/.

 

[Hot Air]

One other advantage of roller cam is you can swap cams without changing the lifters!
Conrad

 

[Searcher]

FWIW, I was patrolling some brand F forums the other day and some well known Names in engine building were complaining that they couldn't keep lobes on the flat tappet cams they were using for a competition, either. So apparently it's not just Buicks.

As regards roller cam noise, there are two roller cam TR's around here. On one the valvetrain is silent while the other had a couple of lifters tapping lightly. Come to find out that the noisy one had some guide and spring issues that the machine shop didn't correct. I'll bet that the noisy one is quiet when it gets back together.

 

[GSX-PKV]

Paul V ,,what Preload Do You Run On Your 210 210 Cc Roller Lifters,,i Find Mine A Bit Noisy ,i Use 15 40 Rotella ,,,,,,but I Did Notice When I Did A Engine Flush With A Cheap 10 30 The Valve Action Noise Was Not As Bad Any Comments My Preload Is About .025 I Know It Should Be .040......i Guess I Am Looking For Perfection

I have non adjustable pushrods or raockerarms. The engine was built by Pete Barton at the old ANS. When first run, it ran great but it was a little "clackity" so Pete ordered slightly longer pushrods and that silenced it nicely. Since Pete assembled the motor, I don't know what the preload is. Paul