Some of my experience with the Bison alky plate amoung other things.

[Mr.Spool]

Because of the burn rate of methanol vs gas the target afr must change and I don't care how it is injected.the more meth injected the richer you must go.

 

[Mr.Spool]

it could probably go either way I guess.

Pull the plugs on a wot pass and see how that plate and any fuel delivery system through the intake is and you will see very quickly how.the power plate,meth pre throttle body or direct port will show everything thats going on in the combustion chamber.

 

[The Granny]

Because of the burn rate of methanol vs gas the target afr must change and I don't care how it is injected.the more meth injected the richer you must go.

what about timing? when injecting more methanol does the timing need to change?


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[Mr.Spool]

From what I understand is that u don't need to step to a dual nozzle setup till you are tapping on the 9s ?

I ran twin m10s on a stock motor into the 10s on a 49 turbo combo back in the day car loved it.

 

[Mr.Spool]

what about timing? when injecting more methanol does the timing need to change?


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It can.depends on What the goals are.there is a difference between those who seek to make more power vs those who need to manage the power to get from a to b.

 

[The Granny]

It can.depends on What the goals are.there is a difference between those who seek to make more power vs those who need to manage the power to get from a to b.

gotcha. I didn't know if there was a method of calculate timing based on % meth like there was a table for calculating a/f ratios based on meth %. but now that I see it typed out rather than just thinking about it it seems kind of silly. but I also wasn't sure if there was any trend in general of timing targets based on meth %. thank you!


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[Mr.Spool]

gotcha. I didn't know if there was a method of calculate timing based on % meth like there was a table for calculating a/f ratios based on meth %. but now that I see it typed out rather than just thinking about it it seems kind of silly. but I also wasn't sure if there was any trend in general of timing targets based on meth %. thank you!


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Timing should be based on fuel,compression,head design etc and the ability to apply power to the ground inmo.

 

[Mr.Spool]

So my last questions ... wouldn't we now be relying on the ALKY kit as a fuel source rather than just a knock suppressent

Into that's how you make the real power.

 

[Jerryl]

If you look at curves of saturation temperature vs pressure for methanol, the conclusion for a car with even a marginal intercooler is none. At 0 psig, Tsat is around 150 F, at 22 psig Tsat is around 200F. The alky does not flash at those pressures below those temperatures. The only heat transfer then would be based on the droplet size and heat conduction with the air and evaporation. I don't think the evaporation would be significant in the fraction of a second it takes for the air to move from the point of the nozzle to the cylinder. All of the benefit is on the compression stroke in the cylinder. The pre turbo nozzle I think would help. When the turbo is compressing the air, the heat of compression along with heating due to inefficiencies, will flash the alky taking the full effect of the latent heat of vaporization of the alky, and reduce the specific volume of the air and allow the turbo to move more mass flow or operate at a lower back pressure.

This is correct, and it is often forgotten that the Tsat rises.
I wanted to take full advantage of any latent heat of vaporization in the intake, and keep the intake/TB clean (No PCV), and have been running an M5 (What I had available) pre-TB (non secret/std. location), and the kit. An M2 or M3 probably makes more sense though.

I will put it like this; My car made easy 10 second power with a seriously weak SMC alky pump (Around 50 PSI pressure). Boost was 23 so net injected alky pressure was around 27. Zero KR, 23/21 deg confirmed chip timing.

 

[Nigel]

This is correct, and it is often forgotten that the Tsat rises.
I wanted to take full advantage of any latent heat of vaporization in the intake, and keep the intake/TB clean (No PCV), and have been running an M5 (What I had available) pre-TB (non secret/std. location), and the kit. An M2 or M3 probably makes more sense though.

I will put it like this; My car made easy 10 second power with a seriously weak SMC alky pump (Around 50 PSI pressure). Boost was 23 so net injected alky pressure was around 27. Zero KR, 23/21 deg confirmed chip timing.

Good to know, hopefully I will be back up running with a new pump before the weekend.

 

[Nigel]

New pump showed up yesterday(hurricane did not slow Razor down). Have to do a little retuning. Had to turn the initial down, pretty close to where Razor delivered new. Gain is 4.5 and I am little fatter than where I was with the old pump, with the initial turned up and the gain pegged. Have not put in any real tuning time yet, but the old pump was weak for sure.

 

[Pronto]

Sounds like that pump was heading south big time.

 

[Mr.Spool]

My car made easy 10 second power with a seriously weak SMC alky pump (Around 50 PSI pressure).

Do you really believe the car will make it all the way through the 1/4 mile with 50 psi of pressure?

 

[Jerryl]

Do you really believe the car will make it all the way through the 1/4 mile with 50 psi of pressure?

What do you think I believe?

 

[Nigel]

Sounds like that pump was heading south big time.

Yes, and I knew that stuff has to be watched, but I was not quite on top of it.

 

[Mr.Spool]

What do you think I believe?

Not sure that's why I thought I would ask.when the shurflow pumps start to go away they come up a little slower and drop overall max pressure.i have seen them leaking from the head and still make 100+psi.now on a car that is really thirsty for the the meth and has pulled back the injector on time right around the 1/8 or 1000 ft head gasket and melting lots of the stuff will occur.same thing if the car has a weak fuel pump and you lose 10 to 15 psi of wot fuel pressure impacting all 6 injectors.

 

[Nigel]

No new track data, have not made it back to the track. I have been doing some tuning on the street, so far so good. I have pulled back quite a bit of gasoline and have added meth. Car seems to like it, but the track will tell. I am going to try an make it up next Wednesday.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Read the plugs. Take the time to cut the threads off, and look at the fuel ring....

 

[Nigel]

Leaving work today and scanned the car, MTs are shot, showing a little cord . Have to get new tires before heading to the track(or driving). Have done a number of no knock pulls in 3rd on the street. I think I am ready for the track minus tires.

 

[Nigel]

Rained out this week.