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STOCK turbo racing class, Any Interest??

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Changed the turbo size to 59.00-mm. Any more thoughts or input would be appreciated.
Jim C. - GSCA Race Director

Factory Stock Appearing – FSA

General

Heads-up 4-tenths pro tree start and pro ladder. (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14, 4 vs 13, 5 vs 12, etc....)
All cars racing in the Turbo Heads-Up racing classes must be owned and driven by a current member of the GSCA.
No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers, Beech Bend Raceway track safety technician personnel will make all rulings on track safety related items.
Winner and runner-up are subject to re-weigh and re-tech immediately after final round or at any other time.
Any entrant caught trying to deliberately break the rules will be disqualified from the TSS class.
To compete in this class the car must be Factory Stock Appearing with the following exceptions and/or clarifications:
Definition of "Factory Stock Appearing"
A factory stock appearing part is a GM part originally delivered on a 1986 to 1987 Buick Regal, GNX, Grand National, T-Type or Turbo Regal from Buick Motor Division and is externally stock in appearance. No external welding, cold weld epoxy, puttying, etc. may be done on any factory stock appearing part unless specifically stated. See Engine section for cylinder block requirements. * Note: GM exhaust headers may be welded on externally to repair defects. This includes the driver's side header area that is prone to cracking and may include welding on both driver and passenger side header between the primary port and mounting flange. Welded in EGT gauge probe bungs are allowed. See Engine and Engine Management section for cylinder block and ignition requirements.

Chassis

Seat belts, lights, horn, and windshield wipers must be operational.
All factory headlights must be in place during competition.
Helmet required. Cars must pass track safety inspection.
Car should possess all applicable safety equipment for potential ET/speeds attained.
Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least 3,500 pounds.
Complete stock, painted TR/GN body required.
No fiberglass or carbon fiber body parts, bumpers or hood scoops.
Stock operating glass windows and windshield required, no lexan.
Engine/firewall must be in stock location.
Stock wheelbase required (108.0" measured).
Factory stock appearing inner front wheel wells required.
Factory stock appearing front suspension components and mounting locations required w/any type stock location shocks. Swaybars may be removed.
Factory stock rear suspension locations required with any type stock location shocks.


**All control arms must use the factory mounting location. No bolt-in or welded relocators allowed. (ie. Southside bars).**

No quarter panel modifications except rolled inner fender lip.
Minor modifications to stock rear wheel wells (no mini-tubs).
Outer frame rail notching is allowed. Inner frame rails remain stock. No inner frame rail reinforcement allowed.
No ladder bars or coil over equipped rear suspension.
No wheelie bars or parachutes.
Brake system must be either Power Master or vacuum boost operated, no manual brakes allowed.
Brake system line locks allowed.
Drive shaft safety loop required.
Driver's name and club decal on side/quarter windows allowed. Sponsor/vendor decal is acceptable on the rear window.
A maximum of 2 hood mounted gauges are allowed.

Engine

Buick V6 block < 240CID max.

**Block casting number 25526109 only. No Stage or A/M blocks!!**

Must use DIS type I or II ignition, NO distributor.
8-bolt Iron cylinder head castings required. No Stage 2 or aluminum heads.
Factory valve covers and oil pan required.
No dry sump-oiling system.
Factory stock intake manifold required. No external welding allowed * No modifications such as welding, cold weld epoxy, putty, etc. may be done on any portion of the intake manifold runners to increase manifold air flow are allowed.
Factory stock appearing cast aluminum intake plenum allowed.
Factory stock appearing throttle body required. * Throttle body may be bored to 62-mm so long as it retains the factory stock appearance.
Factory stock appearing driver's side exhaust headers. No ATR, Hooker, Terry Houston or Poston replacements allowed.
Factory crossover pipe required. No delta gates allowed.
Any single or dual exhaust system allowed. Must muffle and exit in stock location(s) (3.0" max size). * Exhaust must run through mufflers in competition.
Factory downpipe elbow and downpipe from the turbo is required. It must be routed down through the stock location. No flex pipe allowed.

Turbo

**One (1) factory stock appearing TA series, Garrett 3-bolt turbo required. Maximum 59.00-mm compressor wheel, Inlet bore maximum 59.50-mm measured. No ported shroud compressor housing. The TA series turbo compressor inlet housing must be a 3" inlet with a 2" outlet only.
No ball bearing turbos of any type.


Intercooler

Factory stock location air to air intercooler required, no modifications allowed.
No front mount intercoolers are allowed.
No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling, or add-on cold boxes allowed.

Engine Management & Fuel System

Stock ECM or modified stock ECM only. NO aftermarket fuel system systems allowed, (DFI, FAST, Motec, etc). NO speed density sysytems.
Factory Stock Appearing (Type I) or (Type II) DIS cam position sensor required.
No individual coil per spark plug ignitions allowed.
No distributor ignitions allowed.
No delay boxes, throttle stops, or crossover boxes allowed.
Any intake air induction system allowed.
Factory MAF sensor is required. All intake air must pass through and be measured by the MAF sensor.
Any fuel pump(s) allowed. * Note: Fuel pump(s) must not be visible from outside of car.
Voltage increasing and fuel pump hot wiring devices are allowed.
All factory stock appearing fuel lines required.
Factory stock appearing fuel rail required.
Any type fuel pressure regulator allowed.
Up to 42.5-lb fuel injectors allowed, 6 maximum.
Factory stock appearing fuel tank required with no additional cells or sumps.
Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

Engine Compartment

Air conditioning operational w/belt in stock location.
Power steering operational w/belt in stock location.
Stock alternator operational w/belt in stock location.
Stock water pump operational w/belt in stock location.
No engine compartment dress up is allowed with the exception of chromed or polished factory parts.
Battery, one (1) only and it must be the stock location.
Stock type electric engine cooling fan required.
Any stock or replacement radiator in stock location allowed.

Transmission

GM 200-4R transmission required.
Any size torque converter acceptable, with or without lock-up.
Any transmission oil cooler and pan allowed.
No transmission brake allowed.

Differential

Factory stock appearing differential housing required.
No differential spools.
Any gear ratio w/factory stock or reinforced differential cover allowed.
Tires & Wheels

Drag radials up to 275/60-15 are allowed. Tires may not be shaved.
Front tire footprint must be at least 3.5" wide.

Interior

Full stock interior required.
Stock transmission shifter required.
No external aftermarket gauges allowed. Internal gauges such as boost, oil pressure and water temp are allowed. Knock sensor and scan masters are allowed.
 
What do they allow in some of the muscle car series being run? It would be nice to get that kind of feel with this class.

They require a rim that is specific to the type of car. As such we would have to make it production only. What are the thoughts?

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
Air conditioning operational w/belt in stock location

This rule should allow a A/C delete pulley. My car had this when I bought it. I still have everything on the firewall and the heater works but no A/C compressor and no condensor. I'm sure there are others that are the same way.
 
I have got to get something quicker than dial-up here at the house...

Jim,

I would change the cubic inch rule to 235cui (3.830) or 236cui (3.840). I don't think there should be a place for stroked cubic $$$ in this class. Remember the little people... :smile: Especially those who don't have motor work as of yet.

Again I would dump the maximum injector size. No frame rail notching. Factory stock MAF only?? Leaves out alot of people who went to the F-body/Vette set-ups and similar.

I think all accessories should be intact.

Also I know not everyone is up to date of turbo technology. So as a FYI the 59mm inducer size includes turbos as large as the old school Ta/Te62. I'm not up to date on the Gt-series turbos so if someone could post those included as well.


K.
 
I have got to get something quicker than dial-up here at the house...

Jim,

I would change the cubic inch rule to 235cui (3.830) or 236cui (3.840). I don't think there should be a place for stroked cubic $$$ in this class. Remember the little people... :smile: Especially those who don't have motor work as of yet.

Good point.

Again I would dump the maximum injector size. No frame rail notching. Factory stock MAF only?? Leaves out alot of people who went to the F-body/Vette set-ups and similar.

The problem with this is that it takes away from the "Factory Stock Appearing" and leaves the door open for other issues such as DP and the like. Before you know it you have basically a modified version of TSS on a lower scale. I will do whatever ya'll want. We just need the input.

As for injector size by leaving that door open you stand the potential to open the opportunity for someone to get rather creative in regards to injector drivers and ECM that may not be available to the average Joe.

I think all accessories should be intact.

I agree.

Also I know not everyone is up to date of turbo technology. So as a FYI the 59mm inducer size includes turbos as large as the old school Ta/Te62. I'm not up to date on the Gt-series turbos so if someone could post those included as well.


K.

It would be the TA series only so as to maintain the stock appearance unless voted otherwise. My thoughts here are the K.I.S.S. principle. Input?

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
Small or STOCK TA series turbo's only, no strokers, ALL accessories in place. Let's keep it simple & see some Stock Turbo musclecars run.
 
Sounds like fun, here are my 2 cents.

1) Ditch the stroker motor for this class.
2) Stock DP and Elbow are going to be tough as how many still have those parts?? 3" DP Max and what about a test pipe?? I say ya to both.
3) Stock headers, fit the same bill as above. Many have had to move on so you are thinning out the numbers.
4) ANY High Z Injector allowed would solve any ECM modding issues and HP needs. Someone on here goes 11.3 on a full weight GN, that's going to the edge IMO on 42.5 lbs and leaves a small window to expand on MPH wise with.
5) Stock Maf, same as DP and headers, many have moved on and most of the remans don't function properly anyways. Any GM maf sounds good.
6) No dutt neck is a mistake, if you are going to let people mod the TB to 62mm you should let those with the Dutt Neck play ball. No ones going to buy another stock IC just to race in this class, thinning issue again.

I bet you will get people running low 11's to high 10's in this class. :eek:
 
Sounds like fun, here are my 2 cents.

1) Ditch the stroker motor for this class.
2) Stock DP and Elbow are going to be tough as how many still have those parts?? 3" DP Max and what about a test pipe?? I say ya to both.
3) Stock headers, fit the same bill as above. Many have had to move on so you are thinning out the numbers.
4) ANY High Z Injector allowed would solve any ECM modding issues and HP needs. Someone on here goes 11.3 on a full weight GN, that's going to the edge IMO on 42.5 lbs and leaves a small window to expand on MPH wise with.
5) Stock Maf, same as DP and headers, many have moved on and most of the remans don't function properly anyways. Any GM maf sounds good.
6) No dutt neck is a mistake, if you are going to let people mod the TB to 62mm you should let those with the Dutt Neck play ball. No ones going to buy another stock IC just to race in this class, thinning issue again.

I bet you will get people running low 11's to high 10's in this class. :eek:


With all the rules changes and modifications allowed, I wouldn't be surprised either. Sure didn't take long for the "stock class" to erode. :mad:

My bone stock 87 (only mods being TA49 and blue tops) (yes, except for the turbo and injectors, it has it's original everything) wouldn't stand a chance against what the rules have migrated to.
 
Sounds like fun, here are my 2 cents.

1) Ditch the stroker motor for this class.
2) Stock DP and Elbow are going to be tough as how many still have those parts?? 3" DP Max and what about a test pipe?? I say ya to both.
3) Stock headers, fit the same bill as above. Many have had to move on so you are thinning out the numbers.
4) ANY High Z Injector allowed would solve any ECM modding issues and HP needs. Someone on here goes 11.3 on a full weight GN, that's going to the edge IMO on 42.5 lbs and leaves a small window to expand on MPH wise with.
5) Stock Maf, same as DP and headers, many have moved on and most of the remans don't function properly anyways. Any GM maf sounds good.
6) No dutt neck is a mistake, if you are going to let people mod the TB to 62mm you should let those with the Dutt Neck play ball. No ones going to buy another stock IC just to race in this class, thinning issue again.

I bet you will get people running low 11's to high 10's in this class. :eek:

My feelings are that if your car is equipped with any of these fancy racing parts than run you car in a fancy racing car class. This should be a class to showcase what a good running, well prepared, STOCK, Turbo Buick can run. The REAL musclecar crowd seems to be able to get there 35 - 40 year old cars back to stock but the GN crowd with there MASS produced Regals can't make a pass without a THDP & skinnes??

There are a lot of cars being returned to stock or near stock lately & this might get some nice cars out of the Test & Tune lanes, showcar field, and into a class. Keep the rules simple. STOCK turbo, intercooler, MAF, air cleaner, manifolds, downpipe, suspension with swaybars, etc........
 
Sounds good folks this is the kinda input that is needed. I will revamp the rules and post them again for review.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
I think this class should be keep really simple - stock turbo, downpipe and elbow, intercooler, and airbox. Just a basic G*S*C*A* 12 second recipe class. Allow porting of the stock components -turbo, downpipe, elbow, and dog house for example. I also think you should be required to run a true radial limited to a certain size on the factory wheels. I believe this class would be a mid 12 second class with the items listed above. Leave the upgraded turbos, downpipes, and intercoolers for TSS. If you start allowing these upgraded parts it's just going to be a duplicate class that is going to be a lot of money to run. The above stock parts and true radials would level the playing field. I used to race a true radial class with my TR. You have to learn how to hook your car and be able to drive it. It's not difficult to run 12's on a real radial. Stock parts are not had to come by for those that sold theirs. I saw several stock downpipes and stock intercoolers at the Nats for all around $40 each. A lot cheaper than buying an upgraded turbo.

Thanks for any consideration, Craig
 
It would be the TA series only so as to maintain the stock appearance unless voted otherwise. My thoughts here are the K.I.S.S. principle. Input?

I actaully agree with you 100%, but I think car count will be very low because noone buys Ta-series turbos anymore. Unless people go out and buy specifically for this class.


K.
 
Sounds like fun, here are my 2 cents.

1) Ditch the stroker motor for this class.
2) Stock DP and Elbow are going to be tough as how many still have those parts?? 3" DP Max and what about a test pipe?? I say ya to both.
3) Stock headers, fit the same bill as above. Many have had to move on so you are thinning out the numbers.
4) ANY High Z Injector allowed would solve any ECM modding issues and HP needs. Someone on here goes 11.3 on a full weight GN, that's going to the edge IMO on 42.5 lbs and leaves a small window to expand on MPH wise with.
5) Stock Maf, same as DP and headers, many have moved on and most of the remans don't function properly anyways. Any GM maf sounds good.
6) No dutt neck is a mistake, if you are going to let people mod the TB to 62mm you should let those with the Dutt Neck play ball. No ones going to buy another stock IC just to race in this class, thinning issue again.

I bet you will get people running low 11's to high 10's in this class. :eek:

If you're going to allow any high Z injector, which is about unlimited these days, I see no reason not to allow low Z injectors in. They've been around for a long time, many people run them, and there is no HP adavntage between them.

The MAF rule needs to be "any MAF" or "stock MAF only". If you're wanting to keep this a 11-sec. class or slower I vote the later.

I like the stock DP and elbow rule. There are still plenty of them out there for sale from people who have installed A/M pipes. And they're not too hard to change back.

If you allow the Duttweiler neck mod., the rule needs to allow any intercooler inlet neck mod. Otherwise you're catering to a specific vendors product. I personally would prefer it be stock intercooler, with no mods. Otherwise, I'd like to fabricate my own inlet that would be similar to the Dutt. neck, but my own version.


K.
 
I think this class should be keep really simple - stock turbo, downpipe and elbow, intercooler, and airbox. Just a basic G*S*C*A* 12 second recipe class. Allow porting of the stock components -turbo, downpipe, elbow, and dog house for example. I also think you should be required to run a true radial limited to a certain size on the factory wheels. I believe this class would be a mid 12 second class with the items listed above. Leave the upgraded turbos, downpipes, and intercoolers for TSS. If you start allowing these upgraded parts it's just going to be a duplicate class that is going to be a lot of money to run. The above stock parts and true radials would level the playing field. I used to race a true radial class with my TR. You have to learn how to hook your car and be able to drive it. It's not difficult to run 12's on a real radial. Stock parts are not had to come by for those that sold theirs. I saw several stock downpipes and stock intercoolers at the Nats for all around $40 each. A lot cheaper than buying an upgraded turbo.

Thanks for any consideration, Craig

10-years ago I went 12.0's @ 114mph just like you mention. Now add motor work, new technology, etc. Other than the tires you mention it will still be a 11-sec. car that wins it.


K.
 
I think this class should be keep really simple - stock turbo, downpipe and elbow, intercooler, and airbox. Just a basic G*S*C*A* 12 second recipe class. Allow porting of the stock components -turbo, downpipe, elbow, and dog house for example. I also think you should be required to run a true radial limited to a certain size on the factory wheels. I believe this class would be a mid 12 second class with the items listed above. Leave the upgraded turbos, downpipes, and intercoolers for TSS. If you start allowing these upgraded parts it's just going to be a duplicate class that is going to be a lot of money to run. The above stock parts and true radials would level the playing field. I used to race a true radial class with my TR. You have to learn how to hook your car and be able to drive it. It's not difficult to run 12's on a real radial. Stock parts are not had to come by for those that sold theirs. I saw several stock downpipes and stock intercoolers at the Nats for all around $40 each. A lot cheaper than buying an upgraded turbo.

Thanks for any consideration, Craig

I agree 110%. ;)
 
Would like to see this happen. Might bring more interest/people to the Nats who can fit into a racing class, as long as the rules don't get too crazy. I've always wondered how a TR would do if they allowed it into those 'Stock Appearing Drag' races.
 
OK so it would appear that we have two sides to this issue. On the one side we have those that say so long as it looks stock it is in. On the other we have those that are leaning toward the pure stock format meaning - stock turbo, intercooler, radial tire; etc.

Here are my thoughts and they are only thoughts - If we allow items such as a 3-in DP, any high-z injector, neck mod for stock intercooler, any turbo up to a 59-mm, drag radials and limit the c.i. to 236 we end up with a basic bolt on class.

If we make it a pure stock class with the exception of items such as injectors, regulator, touring radials only, then we end up with a more stock appearing class. Having stated both, what direction does this need to go?

What about a compromise? What if any TA series turbo was allowed along with any high-z injector and adjustable FP regulator but we keep the totally stock exhaust, MAF, intercooler and the like? We also make the class it a touring radial class only. Thoughts?

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
If we emulate the F.A.S.T series (See link) but do not allow the strokers and do as they do by making sure to enforce the "stock sound" one can limit camshaft trickery to a certain degree. Again thoughts?

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
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