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STOCK turbo racing class, Any Interest??

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I would like to see the stocker the better and something like the F.A.S.T class, And it's not because mine's all stock. I will have to remove my ATR headers, downpipe & dutt. neck to fit the rules but i gladly will. :)
 
Here is what we have so far. I will pledge $250.00 to if this class has at least an 8 car count and $100.00 for four or less. I will also see about drumming up some more money and or prizes for sponsorship. What say you?

Factory Stock Appearing – FSA

General

Most parts of the car will fall into one of four categories:

1) “Correct” OEM parts. These parts must be proper and they must be Original Equipment Manufactured (OEM) parts, no aftermarket external markings of any type. Examples: Intake manifold and cylinder heads.

2) “Correct” parts. These parts are the same as “Correct” OEM parts, except they do not need to be OEM manufactured. Reproduction parts, that duplicate the Correct* Original parts in appearance, form, function and material and are primarily designed as “restoration” parts are allowed, as long as they comply with all other applicable rules. Examples: wheels, upholstery, emblems, replacement sheet metal, etc.

3) “Spec” parts. Parts that meet a specification defined in the rules, but are not necessarily “Correct” or stock appearing. Examples: tires, exhaust system. Note: Every effort should be made to achieve a stock “look” with these parts. For example; your car did not come from the factory with a 2-1/2” mandrel bent exhaust system. But it is specified in the rules that you may run one. Do not have it powder coated pink or highly polished stainless. Rather, try to keep the finish somewhat consistent with what the original correct* exhaust system would have been.

4) Correct Appearing. Everything not specified otherwise must be correct appearing. “Correct appearing” and “appearing correct” means: upon a cursory visual inspection by someone reasonably familiar with the year, make and model claimed, it looks like a “correct” part.

Heads-up 4-tenths pro tree start and pro ladder. (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15, 3 vs 14, 4 vs 13, 5 vs 12, etc....)
All cars racing in the Turbo Heads-Up racing classes must be owned and driven by a current member of the GSCA.
No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers, Beech Bend Raceway track safety technician personnel will make all rulings on track safety related items.
Winner and runner-up are subject to re-weigh and re-tech immediately after final round or at any other time.
Any entrant caught trying to deliberately break the rules will be disqualified from the TSS class.
To compete in this class the car must be Factory Stock Appearing with the following exceptions and/or clarifications:
Definition of "Factory Stock Appearing"
A factory stock appearing part is a GM part originally delivered on a 1986 to 1987 Buick Regal, GNX, Grand National, T-Type or Turbo Regal from Buick Motor Division and is externally stock in appearance. No external welding, cold weld epoxy, puttying, etc. may be done on any factory stock appearing part unless specifically stated. See Engine section for cylinder block requirements. * Note: GM exhaust headers may be welded on externally to repair defects. This includes the driver's side header area that is prone to cracking and may include welding on both driver and passenger side header between the primary port and mounting flange. Welded in EGT gauge probe bungs are allowed. See Engine and Engine Management section for cylinder block and ignition requirements.

Chassis

Seat belts, lights, horn, and windshield wipers must be operational.
All factory headlights must be in place during competition.
Helmet required. Cars must pass track safety inspection.
Car should possess all applicable safety equipment for potential ET/speeds attained.
Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least 3,500 pounds.
Complete stock, painted TR/GN body required.
No fiberglass or carbon fiber body parts, bumpers or hood scoops.
Stock operating glass windows and windshield required, no lexan.
Engine/firewall must be in stock location.
Stock wheelbase required (108.0" measured).
Factory stock appearing inner front wheel wells required.
Factory stock appearing front suspension components and mounting locations required w/any type stock location shocks. Swaybars may be removed.
Factory stock rear suspension locations required with any type stock location shocks.


**All control arms must use the factory mounting location. No bolt-in or welded relocators allowed. (ie. Southside bars).**

No quarter panel modifications except rolled inner fender lip.
Minor modifications to stock rear wheel wells (no mini-tubs).
Outer frame rail notching is allowed. Inner frame rails remain stock. No inner frame rail reinforcement allowed.
No ladder bars or coil over equipped rear suspension.
No wheelie bars or parachutes.
Brake system must be either Power Master or vacuum boost operated, no manual brakes allowed.
Brake system line locks allowed.
Drive shaft safety loop required.
Driver's name and club decal on side/quarter windows allowed. Sponsor/vendor decal is acceptable on the rear window.
A maximum of 2 hood mounted gauges are allowed.




Engine

Buick V6 block < 236CID max.

**Block casting number 25526109 only. No Stage or A/M blocks!!**

Must use DIS type I or II ignition, NO distributor.
8-bolt Iron cylinder head castings required. No Stage 2 or aluminum heads.
Factory valve covers and oil pan required.
No dry sump-oiling system.
Factory stock intake manifold required. No external welding allowed * No modifications such as welding, cold weld epoxy, putty, etc. may be done on any portion of the intake manifold runners to increase manifold air flow are allowed.
Factory stock appearing cast aluminum intake plenum allowed.
Factory stock appearing throttle body required. * Throttle body may not be bored. It may be bellmouthed so long as it retains the factory stock appearance.
Factory stock appearing driver's side exhaust headers. No ATR, Hooker, Terry Houston or Poston replacements allowed.
Factory crossover pipe required. No delta gates allowed.
Any single or dual exhaust system allowed. Must muffle and exit in stock location(s) (3.0" max size). * Exhaust must run through mufflers in competition.
Factory downpipe and elbow from the turbo is required. It must be routed down through the stock location. No flex pipe allowed.

Turbo

**One (1) factory stock appearing TA series, Garrett 3-bolt turbo required. Maximum 59.00-mm compressor wheel, Inlet bore maximum 59.50-mm measured. No ported shroud compressor housing. The TA style turbo compressor inlet housing must be a 3" inlet with a 2" outlet only so as to maintain the factory appearance.
No ball bearing turbos of any type.


Intercooler

Factory stock location air to air intercooler required, no modifications allowed.
No front mount intercoolers are allowed.
No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling, or add-on cold boxes allowed.

Engine Management & Fuel System

Stock ECM or modified stock ECM only. NO aftermarket fuel system systems allowed, (DFI, FAST, Motec, etc). NO speed density systems.
Factory Stock Appearing (Type I) or (Type II) DIS cam position sensor required.
No individual coil per spark plug ignitions allowed.
No distributor ignitions allowed.
No delay boxes, throttle stops, or crossover boxes allowed.
Any intake air induction system allowed.
Factory MAF sensor is required. All intake air must pass through and be measured by the MAF sensor.
Any fuel pump(s) allowed. * Note: Fuel pump(s) must not be visible from outside of car.
Voltage increasing and fuel pump hot wiring devices are allowed.
All factory stock appearing fuel lines required.
Factory stock appearing fuel rail required.
Any type fuel pressure regulator allowed.
Any high-impedance fuel injector allowed, 6 maximum.
Factory stock appearing fuel tank required with no additional cells or sumps.
Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

Engine Compartment

All accessories must be present, in stock location and in working order.
Air conditioning operational w/belt in stock location.
Power steering operational w/belt in stock location.
Stock alternator operational w/belt in stock location.
Stock water pump operational w/belt in stock location.
No engine compartment dress up is allowed with the exception of chromed or polished factory parts.
Battery, one (1) only and it must be the stock location.
Stock type electric engine cooling fan required.
Any stock or replacement radiator in stock location allowed.
No short belt tricks of any type.

Transmission

GM 200-4R transmission required.
Any size torque converter acceptable, with or without lock-up.
Any transmission oil cooler and pan allowed.
No transmission brake allowed.

Differential

Factory stock appearing differential housing required.
No differential spools.
Any gear ratio w/factory stock or reinforced differential cover allowed.
Tires & Wheels
Any touring radial up to 275/60-15 are allowed. Tires may not be shaved.
Front tire footprint must be at least 5.0" wide.



Interior

Full stock interior required.
Stock transmission shifter required.
No external aftermarket gauges allowed. Internal gauges such as boost, oil pressure and water temp are allowed. Knock sensor and scan masters are allowed but must retain a clean appearance so as not to intrude on the factory appearance.


Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
Look folks, it ought to be real simple by now. There are always going to be those that "simply must" have changes made for this or that.
It's pretty simple really. Either you want a stock class or you don't, plain and simple. Don't even allow the words "stock appearing" becuase that can mean virtually anything.

If in fact you would like a stock class then keep it that way. When I first started racing my GN (back in 86) I run for quite some time in the IHRA class that Turbo Regals of that time fit into. It was K/PSA. K(class) PSA(pure stock automatic). Pure stock meant just that. In the non injected pure stock classes the only mods allowed were rejetting the carb, and sticky tires (don't remember the width limits). In the injected class like ours the only mods allowed were the computer chip (in place of rejetting) and the same sticky tires. I also seem to remember race gas being allowed (my first O2 sensor death). So I suppose Alky would have to be allowed also. :rolleyes:

But c'mon. If you want stock set the rules accordingly. period. Or let everybody run TSS which is where the non pure stock cars would fit.
 
Stock turbo, stock intercooler. No nitrous, etc Thats it.

You at least allow some creativity instead of all the cars showing up the same.

Stock turbo and stock intercoolers are way more of an equalizer than anything in the above ruleset.
 
Look folks, it ought to be real simple by now. There are always going to be those that "simply must" have changes made for this or that.
It's pretty simple really. Either you want a stock class or you don't, plain and simple. Don't even allow the words "stock appearing" becuase that can mean virtually anything.

If in fact you would like a stock class then keep it that way. When I first started racing my GN (back in 86) I run for quite some time in the IHRA class that Turbo Regals of that time fit into. It was K/PSA. K(class) PSA(pure stock automatic). Pure stock meant just that. In the non injected pure stock classes the only mods allowed were rejetting the carb, and sticky tires (don't remember the width limits). In the injected class like ours the only mods allowed were the computer chip (in place of rejetting) and the same sticky tires. I also seem to remember race gas being allowed (my first O2 sensor death). So I suppose Alky would have to be allowed also. :rolleyes:

But c'mon. If you want stock set the rules accordingly. period. Or let everybody run TSS which is where the non pure stock cars would fit.

OK Dave lay it out for me, I am all ears. I can tell you this though - you offer up pure stock rules and I can almost promise you that the turnout will be almost nil. Why; because 99% of the folks that own these cars or most any car for that fact have modified them somehow. The ones that have wouldn't even get near race track for fear of rubber getting on them.

What do we do about issues such as fuel pressure regulators? No one wants to take a chance on tearing up there ride because they can't adjust the FP and if they put an aftermarket one on there then in is not stock. Even if you use one of the shiddy stock ones that has been modded it still can lend itself to problems. We are trying to find a compromise here that will entise folks with mostly stock cars to come on out and compete, that is all. If you have a better set of rules then post them up. As I said before, I am all ears.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
How many folks still have the factory turbo? If we can get some input I will get it changed.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
Any G-body allowed (transplants) as long as it meets the weight and other restrictions?? Or does that take away from the idea?

Just curious.
 
Any G-body allowed (transplants) as long as it meets the weight and other restrictions?? Or does that take away from the idea?

Just curious.

That one would fall into the hybrid class. That class just got revamped but I haven't had a chance to post the rules yet. It is now a dial in class run on a pro tree with a .500 light.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
How many folks still have the factory turbo? If we can get some input I will get it changed.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director

Not enough to make a class... IMHO. I don't think there is enough Ta-series turbos either. I personally like the Ta61 turbo, and have enough customers cars running around here that would make you put that $250.00 up for grabs... :D

K.
 
Jim,

My first question now would be.... Are "we" starting a class to meet a certain ET/MPH level or an appearance level?? Which is the more important to you, the racers, etc.?? Which will have a better car count and competition??

I think if you answer those questions first the class would sway one way or the other based on all the above opinions.


K.
 
Jim,

My first question now would be.... Are "we" starting a class to meet a certain ET/MPH level or an appearance level??

I think if you answer that question first the class would sway one way or the other based on all the above opinions.


K.

Good point, I am going to say that it would be more related to appearance.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
What is the sense of any high impedence injector? The 60/65's and up have less a stock appearance compared to a Siemens low-z, and an injector is an injector... :confused: What's are the pros/cons when looking at a car with low-z 55's compared to high-z 60/65's?? It seems to me the high-z car would have the advantage??

Point is it doesn't make a difference!! All you do is rule out the possibilities of other cars that have low-z injectors in them. The rule should be any injector, maximum of (6). You won't see cars with too large of an injector when you limit the turbo size and essentially the HP level.


K.
 
I didn't realize there was more than 1 valve cover offered in 86 / 87. I must have missed the Mickey Thompson option on the order form. :biggrin:

I've learned from having a part in helping with the TSS rules the last (2) years that if you aren't specific the grey areas will show up on race day!! The words NO and ALLOWED are the most important words lited in the rules...


K.
 
I've learned from having a part in helping with the TSS rules the last (2) years that if you aren't specific the grey areas will show up on race day!! The words NO and ALLOWED are the most important words lited in the rules...


K.

I agree.... I was just being a wise a@@. ;)
 
OK Dave lay it out for me, I am all ears. I can tell you this though - you offer up pure stock rules and I can almost promise you that the turnout will be almost nil. Why; because 99% of the folks that own these cars or most any car for that fact have modified them somehow. The ones that have wouldn't even get near race track for fear of rubber getting on them.

What do we do about issues such as fuel pressure regulators? No one wants to take a chance on tearing up there ride because they can't adjust the FP and if they put an aftermarket one on there then in is not stock. Even if you use one of the shiddy stock ones that has been modded it still can lend itself to problems. We are trying to find a compromise here that will entise folks with mostly stock cars to come on out and compete, that is all. If you have a better set of rules then post them up. As I said before, I am all ears.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director


OK, so let's assume for the sake of getting attendance up, there should be allowances made. Not a bad idea. But.....
Where do the allowances stop??? You'll have 50-100 folks wanting this or that so "they" can "fit" the class. It soon gets out of hand, and in what should be a fairly stock class ends up with reems of rules and exclusions.
Just trying to make that point. Where does it all end.
The more allowances that are made, the faster/quicker the class becomes and the further from "stock" you move. Pretty soon the TSS racers are finding they can "fit the class".

I can tell you one thing. I see no reason for running a pro tree in such a class. Many of the folks that would like to run their "stock" cars probably don't have a wealth of experience at the track and will immediately be discouraged by those that do have such experience killing them on the tree.
Why a pro tree? why not a standard bracket tree? The pro tree suggested by those that can "nail" it?

All being said, I do applaud your efforts to get such a class started. I don't envy you your task of trying to sift through what should be ruled and not ruled from everybody's input (mine included ;) )
 
IMO, too many rules. The way the rules are written you might as well limit them to stock v-springs as well.
I prefer the limitation to be the stock turbo and stock 231 block/head, allow porting and valves and that's about it.
I wouldn't want to race a car that was so stock it wasn't fun to race. Street tires? Why? Allow some slicks and let them launch with some boost.
Let any suspension mods be done.

This class is going to be boring if you have too many rules.

Here's what I would allow:
Any IC
Any DP no larger than 3"
Any injectors as long as they run off the stock ECM
Any stock repacment suspension front/rear
Rear suspension must have stock type trailing arms with stock Lateral angles-SSM bars OK.
Any tires/wheel combo
Tranny: stock case with any mods and converter
Stock Turbo. Porting on inlet OK to lip of turbo. Same with exhaust.
No Alchy Inj.
Any MAF
Any TB
Stock Intake manifold, any mods but no welding of runners
Any boost control
.
.
.
etc..

Let people be creative within some rules and really test these cars out.

ks:cool:
 
IMO, too many rules. The way the rules are written you might as well limit them to stock v-springs as well.
I prefer the limitation to be the stock turbo and stock 231 block/head, allow porting and valves and that's about it.
I wouldn't want to race a car that was so stock it wasn't fun to race. Street tires? Why? Allow some slicks and let them launch with some boost.
Let any suspension mods be done.

This class is going to be boring if you have too many rules.

Here's what I would allow:
Any IC
Any DP no larger than 3"
Any injectors as long as they run off the stock ECM
Any stock repacment suspension front/rear
Rear suspension must have stock type trailing arms with stock Lateral angles-SSM bars OK.
Any tires/wheel combo
Tranny: stock case with any mods and converter
Stock Turbo. Porting on inlet OK to lip of turbo. Same with exhaust.
No Alchy Inj.
Any MAF
Any TB
Stock Intake manifold, any mods but no welding of runners
Any boost control
.
.
.
etc..

Let people be creative within some rules and really test these cars out.

ks:cool:

I agree with some of what you are saying but one has to remember that by allowing any intercooler it leaves the door open to end up as another TSS class and we already have one of those. I will respond more later.

Jim C. - GSCA Race Director
 
I like the idea of running a stock turbo class, as there are quite a few of people who still run it.

If the class was set up to push the limit of the 86/87 production turbo charger, then why not set it up as this.

Car and driver MUST meet the 3500 weight limit, car must be stock appearing inside and outside.
AC must blow 20° cooler than outside air temp

Stock style rims, Westerns / General Lee stock t-type / Widened GN wheels. Any tire size and tire compound allowed, no frame notch but rolled 1/4 wheel well AOK.

Any 3 inch downpipe and any intercooler. Exhaust must dump past the rear axle.

Alky injection is AOK, this will allow the stock turbo cars to reach a new limit that hasnt been set... Ed Brewers car went 11.3 at 116+
Wouldnt it be nice if someone else went faster on a stock turbo?
Wouldnt it be sweet if someone made it into the 10s on a stock turbo?

I thought a "stock turbo" class would be the limiting factor on how much power is being made!
Porting the compressor housing and exhaust housing is AOK, must retain the factory compressor wheel or a reman stock wheel.
Varifying the wheel will be manditory.

Stock appearing under the hood, stock valve covers, any cold air kit using a GM MAF sensor allowing the translator. Lots of people using the newer GM Maf sensors due to our cars being 21 years old.
Any injectors and must be controlled by the factory ECM.

No external gauges.

Seems that this same subject came up last year right after the nats, why not set it up for next year?

Thanks
BW
 
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