This world is going to hell in a hand bag!!!!
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Little6pack
Active Member
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This world is going to hell in a hand bag!!!!
You just figuring this out now?
Yeah Remember the saying for COPS "ABOVE THE LAW"
Well for these KIDS it is "BELOW THE LAW"
They can get away with it too.. wasn't it just recently some kid was let out of jail after killing a 6 year old with a WWF move?
You just figuring this out now?
Yeah Remember the saying for COPS "ABOVE THE LAW"
Well for these KIDS it is "BELOW THE LAW"
They can get away with it too.. wasn't it just recently some kid was let out of jail after killing a 6 year old with a WWF move?
Pat Adkins
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2003
- Messages
- 987
Where were their parents?
We don't teach our kids disipline or respect anymore.
It is not appropriate to use Vice City as a babysitter for a 10 year old
We don't teach our kids disipline or respect anymore.
It is not appropriate to use Vice City as a babysitter for a 10 year old
- Joined
- May 29, 2001
- Messages
- 1,598
go figure...
turbofish38
Le Pétomane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
- Messages
- 6,160
Maybe the parents never learned respect and disipline either? Family values begin at home.Not to stereotype anybody but I bet the parent was a single female of minority descent under the age of 25. I'm watching a TV show the other day on some of these very problems and one person is a 34 year old grandmother! Kids raising kids, and not doing a very good job too!Originally posted by Pat Adkins
Where were their parents?
We don't teach our kids disipline or respect anymore.
It is not appropriate to use Vice City as a babysitter for a 10 year old
Maybe I'm just getting older?
All of your points are right on the money. Kids are not taught respect for authority anymore by both parents and teachers. It seems to me that many of todays teachers are anti establishment types that are really don't respect American values themselves.
I listen to the "Michael Savage" show on my way home from work, and it really fires me up!! It does however piss off my wife when I start talking about what I just heard on the radio. Maybe there where just as many child molesters, and children who committed adult crimes as when I was a kid but it definitley seems more out of control now. I'm only 32, but I remember riding bikes all over the neighborhood and never worrying about some pedefile grabbing me or my friends.
End of rant.
All of your points are right on the money. Kids are not taught respect for authority anymore by both parents and teachers. It seems to me that many of todays teachers are anti establishment types that are really don't respect American values themselves.
I listen to the "Michael Savage" show on my way home from work, and it really fires me up!! It does however piss off my wife when I start talking about what I just heard on the radio. Maybe there where just as many child molesters, and children who committed adult crimes as when I was a kid but it definitley seems more out of control now. I'm only 32, but I remember riding bikes all over the neighborhood and never worrying about some pedefile grabbing me or my friends.
End of rant.
Liberal policies are ruining shools. Teachers hands are tied. Kids that are "labeled" cannot be disciplined much more than time outs and such. Wonder why schools systems are always broke? 1/4 of all legal monies made nationally are from litigation against schools. Teachers are beat up all the time by special ed losers. Tremendous, expensive accomodations are put into place for these kids. Like every other scenario in America, the minority that makes the most noise gets all the attention at the majorities expense.
Failing Inner city minority schools need to be converted from r,r and arithmetic to blue collar trade schools. There not learning anyway. But that would take jobs from our beloved illegal immigrants, what was I thinking!
America is corroding from within.
Failing Inner city minority schools need to be converted from r,r and arithmetic to blue collar trade schools. There not learning anyway. But that would take jobs from our beloved illegal immigrants, what was I thinking!
America is corroding from within.
True Values
No I'm not talking about the hardware store!!(my attempt at humor!) Yeh, I know I was on a roll last night, but American society does seem to be degenerating-little by little. Are all kids getting into trouble? Do all kids not respect autority,etc..etc..? Of course not!! What about the trends though? I hate even watching the news-it's all bad news except for sports-and that depends if your team has won or lost!!
Down here is Socal we have a big problem with illegals. I'm waiting for schools to start teaching Spanish as a primary language with English as optional
No I'm not talking about the hardware store!!(my attempt at humor!) Yeh, I know I was on a roll last night, but American society does seem to be degenerating-little by little. Are all kids getting into trouble? Do all kids not respect autority,etc..etc..? Of course not!! What about the trends though? I hate even watching the news-it's all bad news except for sports-and that depends if your team has won or lost!!
Down here is Socal we have a big problem with illegals. I'm waiting for schools to start teaching Spanish as a primary language with English as optional
Re: True Values
OK, but you mentioned that teachers were a part of the problem here. I'm interested in your explaination.
Yes, things need to swing around as far as values, respect, discipline and overall quality of lifestyles. Granted, it's nothing that any generation before hasn't seen and it's easy to see things going to hell, as our parents, and their parents before though. But where do you come up with the idea that the teachers are the cause.
You can probably read my sig and figure out why I ask... would be interested in your POV.
As for 'illegals' in SoCal I couldn't agree with you more. People are pouring over the border as if it's sprung a leak and expecting a paid education although they are not supposed to be here in the first place. But this sounds like a results of politicians, politics and policies which favor catering to a possible future vote. No English should not be in the back seat of languages to learn in this country. The fact that students only speak spanish, must learn English and clog up our classrooms with students who are 'behind' makes for a poor reflection on test scores (that I don't believe in) as well as the actual quality of education that legitimate students receive.
There's an interesting website on the subject of English as our primary language. When I find the link, I'll post it. You might be interested.
Originally posted by bensttype
No I'm not talking about the hardware store!!(my attempt at humor!) Yeh, I know I was on a roll last night, but American society does seem to be degenerating-little by little. Are all kids getting into trouble? Do all kids not respect autority,etc..etc..? Of course not!! What about the trends though? I hate even watching the news-it's all bad news except for sports-and that depends if your team has won or lost!!
Down here is Socal we have a big problem with illegals. I'm waiting for schools to start teaching Spanish as a primary language with English as optional
OK, but you mentioned that teachers were a part of the problem here. I'm interested in your explaination.
Yes, things need to swing around as far as values, respect, discipline and overall quality of lifestyles. Granted, it's nothing that any generation before hasn't seen and it's easy to see things going to hell, as our parents, and their parents before though. But where do you come up with the idea that the teachers are the cause.
You can probably read my sig and figure out why I ask... would be interested in your POV.
As for 'illegals' in SoCal I couldn't agree with you more. People are pouring over the border as if it's sprung a leak and expecting a paid education although they are not supposed to be here in the first place. But this sounds like a results of politicians, politics and policies which favor catering to a possible future vote. No English should not be in the back seat of languages to learn in this country. The fact that students only speak spanish, must learn English and clog up our classrooms with students who are 'behind' makes for a poor reflection on test scores (that I don't believe in) as well as the actual quality of education that legitimate students receive.
There's an interesting website on the subject of English as our primary language. When I find the link, I'll post it. You might be interested.
Judas Priest was taken to court and it was Rob Halford's 'I want a peppermint' joke that pretty much got them off the hook. Ozzy was also taken to court by parents claiming that his 'Suicide Solution' was an encouragement to kids to kill themselves when it was actually an elucidation of the stupidity of alcoholism. The plaintiff's attorney claimed that an echo effect on the vocals that sounded like 'shh...shh...shh' was actually Ozzy saying 'Get the gun, shoot...shoot...shoot'. To which Ozzy said "Get the ****ing gun? I never said **** about getting any ****ing gun!"
Do you have anything else important to say?
teachers
I've been thinking about what I said earlier.
I don't think all teachers are bad or even that most are bad. I think that teachers kind of do what the administrators tell them to. These administrators seem like liberal politions to me. The focus on the 3 R's has faded to some extent. Children are often passed on to the next grade when they shouldn't be. Fears of lawsuits I'm sure are a reason for this. I guess that until we elect politions that aren't afraid to take the heat for making the radical changes that are needed, education will continue as it is. I went to Catholic school from 1-8th grade and I always thought how much better it must be in public school. I then went to an inner city type public high school and I was really shocked at how there was no real control. I felt just like a number, and to the administration I was. Parents were required to work at my elementary school, and if a student wasn't cutting it they got the boot. I only had two nuns as teachers, the others were just old school type teachers who were demanding, but fair and took an interest in all the students in there class. My mom as a single parent was able to pay the tuition, which Im sure wouldn't be the case today.
Chris, I'm curious what in your opinion needs to change in education? What do you teach in Germany? Can we use what works in Germany and apply it to American education?
I've been thinking about what I said earlier.
I don't think all teachers are bad or even that most are bad. I think that teachers kind of do what the administrators tell them to. These administrators seem like liberal politions to me. The focus on the 3 R's has faded to some extent. Children are often passed on to the next grade when they shouldn't be. Fears of lawsuits I'm sure are a reason for this. I guess that until we elect politions that aren't afraid to take the heat for making the radical changes that are needed, education will continue as it is. I went to Catholic school from 1-8th grade and I always thought how much better it must be in public school. I then went to an inner city type public high school and I was really shocked at how there was no real control. I felt just like a number, and to the administration I was. Parents were required to work at my elementary school, and if a student wasn't cutting it they got the boot. I only had two nuns as teachers, the others were just old school type teachers who were demanding, but fair and took an interest in all the students in there class. My mom as a single parent was able to pay the tuition, which Im sure wouldn't be the case today.
Chris, I'm curious what in your opinion needs to change in education? What do you teach in Germany? Can we use what works in Germany and apply it to American education?
TurboTer
Zap! Commander
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 1,578
Re: Re: True Values
Teachers are quite liberal, especially political science teachers in collage. Try saying in a NYC collage that Ronald Reagan was a great president or find fault in Martin Luther King and watch what happens.
Teachers are quite liberal, especially political science teachers in collage. Try saying in a NYC collage that Ronald Reagan was a great president or find fault in Martin Luther King and watch what happens.
Re: teachers
LOOOOOOONG reply
First to answer your question, at the moment I teach English for an adults school. I won't try to explain, but generally this school is an alternative to the university.
As for the way schools are done here, it's TOTALLY different. At the grade school level, schools are divided and then divided again depending on students achievment levels and career decisions. This is actually done at a fairly young age. But that's all for another thread. Heck, that could be two or three class lessons in itself.
As for your views on teachers. I'm glad you thought about it. It seemed your statements before seemed to come from a view that's not familiar with the public school system and all the 'behind the scenes' problems that teachers face.
Ever hear the saying '$hit rolls downhill'. In education, it's true. While I'm sure there are some teachers who will disagree with me, I think a strong majority feel the problems coming from above. Many are the times that I've felt a student should be retained only to find higher political powers busy at work to promote a child to the next level when they don't deserve. I've had children retained before and I can tell you, parents are often not happy with that decision. Some are understanding but many others are looking for someone else to blame. The best one I hear is that the teachers didn't teach correctly. This is where teachers have to play the CYA game. "Cover Your A$$". We end up in a meeting with administrators, sometimes school lawyers and officials with our lesson plans trying to defend our case.
As for administrators, I have to admit, the higher up they go, the worse they get. I was lucky enough to have an administrator with a level head who would stick by his teachers so long as the teachers got it right. As a teacher, if you could show that you used reasonable care and judgment, then he would fight with you to the end. Many administrators though are not like that. They have and do become a figure head that tries to please the parents, PTA, school board members, etc. Teachers can easily fall far down on that list. In defense of administrators, they do have a lot of pressures from all sides. And most of all they are getting it from above. Which takes us further up the ladder. School board, Dep. of Ed and then politicians.
Every school board wants to show off their finest. They want to show that their graduates go on to college/university. They want to show the taxpayer that their educational system produces scholars and atheletes. So the last thing they want to have bite them is low test scores and high retention numbers. High retention numbers that the system is failing. Students aren't learning and students are coming out of high school at the age of 18 and 19. That looks BAD. So, the push goes to teachers and administrators to 'push' the kids thru.
I had a student in middle school who was old enough to drive a car to middle school (8th grade). Student kept getting retained. Student had a horrible attendence record. Quite literally didn't meet the minimum days required. Student would be out for weeks at a time. Legal action had to be levied for truency. But no matter what we as teachers do, there will be a push to 'move' that child along. And there are thousands upon thousands of cases like this.
I fight for students to get what they deserve. Good or bad. I can't say that all teachers do that. Sometimes a frustrating student is easier to 'get rid of' by moving them along. Passing the buck. Me personally, I don't like the idea of someone getting something they don't deserve and having my signature under it. That is how many dedicated, hard working teachers feel. But at the end of the day, poor little Johnny can't be "left behind". So they push him thru and cross their fingers that McDs has openings.
In closing, who do I blame the most. Parents and politics. You'd be surprised how many parents think they KNOW what is best for their child and end up doing more harm then good. But that blame will ultimately fall on teachers.
As for TurboTer; If your political science teacher was liberal then take it up with him/her. But that doesn't make all teachers out to be liberal. There are millions of teachers from pre-school, grade school, private school, college/university, post graduate school as well as tutorial and vocational institutions. And just like anybody else in this world, there are some teachers who are liberal and some who are conservative. What does it matter... as long as teachers are dedicated to giving students the best education possible, that's all that matters. And trust me, it takes dedication and devotion to put up with the school system year after year.
OK.. off my tall soap box.
LOOOOOOONG reply
First to answer your question, at the moment I teach English for an adults school. I won't try to explain, but generally this school is an alternative to the university.
As for the way schools are done here, it's TOTALLY different. At the grade school level, schools are divided and then divided again depending on students achievment levels and career decisions. This is actually done at a fairly young age. But that's all for another thread. Heck, that could be two or three class lessons in itself.
As for your views on teachers. I'm glad you thought about it. It seemed your statements before seemed to come from a view that's not familiar with the public school system and all the 'behind the scenes' problems that teachers face.
Ever hear the saying '$hit rolls downhill'. In education, it's true. While I'm sure there are some teachers who will disagree with me, I think a strong majority feel the problems coming from above. Many are the times that I've felt a student should be retained only to find higher political powers busy at work to promote a child to the next level when they don't deserve. I've had children retained before and I can tell you, parents are often not happy with that decision. Some are understanding but many others are looking for someone else to blame. The best one I hear is that the teachers didn't teach correctly. This is where teachers have to play the CYA game. "Cover Your A$$". We end up in a meeting with administrators, sometimes school lawyers and officials with our lesson plans trying to defend our case.
As for administrators, I have to admit, the higher up they go, the worse they get. I was lucky enough to have an administrator with a level head who would stick by his teachers so long as the teachers got it right. As a teacher, if you could show that you used reasonable care and judgment, then he would fight with you to the end. Many administrators though are not like that. They have and do become a figure head that tries to please the parents, PTA, school board members, etc. Teachers can easily fall far down on that list. In defense of administrators, they do have a lot of pressures from all sides. And most of all they are getting it from above. Which takes us further up the ladder. School board, Dep. of Ed and then politicians.
Every school board wants to show off their finest. They want to show that their graduates go on to college/university. They want to show the taxpayer that their educational system produces scholars and atheletes. So the last thing they want to have bite them is low test scores and high retention numbers. High retention numbers that the system is failing. Students aren't learning and students are coming out of high school at the age of 18 and 19. That looks BAD. So, the push goes to teachers and administrators to 'push' the kids thru.
I had a student in middle school who was old enough to drive a car to middle school (8th grade). Student kept getting retained. Student had a horrible attendence record. Quite literally didn't meet the minimum days required. Student would be out for weeks at a time. Legal action had to be levied for truency. But no matter what we as teachers do, there will be a push to 'move' that child along. And there are thousands upon thousands of cases like this.
I fight for students to get what they deserve. Good or bad. I can't say that all teachers do that. Sometimes a frustrating student is easier to 'get rid of' by moving them along. Passing the buck. Me personally, I don't like the idea of someone getting something they don't deserve and having my signature under it. That is how many dedicated, hard working teachers feel. But at the end of the day, poor little Johnny can't be "left behind". So they push him thru and cross their fingers that McDs has openings.
In closing, who do I blame the most. Parents and politics. You'd be surprised how many parents think they KNOW what is best for their child and end up doing more harm then good. But that blame will ultimately fall on teachers.
As for TurboTer; If your political science teacher was liberal then take it up with him/her. But that doesn't make all teachers out to be liberal. There are millions of teachers from pre-school, grade school, private school, college/university, post graduate school as well as tutorial and vocational institutions. And just like anybody else in this world, there are some teachers who are liberal and some who are conservative. What does it matter... as long as teachers are dedicated to giving students the best education possible, that's all that matters. And trust me, it takes dedication and devotion to put up with the school system year after year.
OK.. off my tall soap box.
TurboTer
Zap! Commander
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 1,578
Re: Re: teachers
Actually, I don't even care if any teachers are liberal or not, but they should keep it to themselves and be as fair as possible. When you have to worry about failing a class because you are wearing a Reagan t-shirt, something needs to be done. The teacher will let anyone say something bad about Reagan, but if the subject is MLK and I critisize him, then I'm blacklisted.
Actually, I don't even care if any teachers are liberal or not, but they should keep it to themselves and be as fair as possible. When you have to worry about failing a class because you are wearing a Reagan t-shirt, something needs to be done. The teacher will let anyone say something bad about Reagan, but if the subject is MLK and I critisize him, then I'm blacklisted.
