Time to go Stage II!

[forcefed3.8's]

With his cam, backpressure would be a serious issue. My cam is designed to be run with a 3 bolt turbo.

 

[Alky V6]

Donnie, that mph is low..... why you short changing yourself ? You know that 1580 bhp gives you more mph than that.

Making hp is only one part of the equation. Getting it to the ground is going to be nothing less than interesting.
In the sim that I'm using, there is the option to use different levels of traction. I'm using 94% on a 29.5 x 10.5 -15w tire. If I were to use a wider tire and change the traction factor to a higher level, then I would be able to come up with a higher MPH, but I'm trying to keep this real and not over estimate things.

 

[Alky V6]

Yes with underwhelming performance. How many passes have you made running an 8.7? What were the other passes? I see no consistency.

My home track is an 1/8 mile track. The fastest ET at my home track (not the best 1/8 track by any means) has been a 5.57. What does that extrapolate out to for a 1/4 mile run?
The occasion that I performed the 8.7 1/4 mile run was at a Pinks All Out event during my last qualifying run. It was an organized event. I didn't really have the opportunity to do round robins with the car. There were no 'test and tune lanes' that day. Besides, that last run of the day was where I had discovered that I had a serious fueling malfunction. That's already been explained. I never did get another opportunity to visit another 1/4 mile track since that Pinks event.

 

[Alky V6]

Would you call that a mismatched combination?

Who are you asking? If you're asking me, I personally don't consider any combination that works, and meets or surpasses the goals of the creator to be a "mismatch". I'm much more open minded about other peoples combinations than most, I guess.

 

[Alky V6]

That probably helped actually. Kept from shrouding the combustion chamber. Not the detriment your portraying it as..

I would agree with you completely on that point, if there were more people that had accomplished 8s using those size valves.

 

[Alky V6]

My combo or his???
My combo works well, proving you don't need big valve GN1r's (or stage 2 heads) and a giant cam (230+) just to go into the 8's.

I agree.

 

[Alky V6]

91mm T6 turbo, cam with high overlap, etc, 8.7's, it sounds like a dream combination to me. IMO the only reason it ran those times with such a odd "turbo" cam is because the backpressure is super low, resulting in slow spool up, but just hide that with NOS.
I understand thinking outside the box, and admire his fab skills, patience, and ideas, but if it doesn't work, then it is time to try a different direction. No it can be argued that it works (and it does if high 8's with a 91mm is working), but TSL and TSO set ups are faster, simpler, and spool without NOS.

I would agree with you, if simple was a primary concern. For me, using nitrous was one of the primary objectives. If it didn't work, I would have moved in a different direction. IMO it worked. It worked real well. It was unbelieveable when I had the T76 on the car. Imagine spooling your turbo to launch ready power in less than one half of a second.
Let's just say I took a leap of faith jumping from the T76 to the T6 91mm. I wanted to see what was possible with the use of nitrous and a turbo that even I wondered if I'd be able to make work. I call it curiousity. I'm a very curious creature.

 

[Alky V6]

With his cam, backpressure would be a serious issue. My cam is designed to be run with a 3 bolt turbo.

Very true. The level of exhaust backpressure is an important factor with the cam I'll be using.
Some people may think that I just put together a mismatch of parts and specifications, but there's actually a lot of thought, studying and planning that I do when I choose each component for 'my very unique combination'.

 

[lazaris]

I would agree with you completely on that point, if there were more people that had accomplished 8s using those size valves.

IF, also we know how many have actually tried....

 

[Alky V6]

I look at it like this. M & A heads were the only game in town for a long time during a period where a lot of people were pushing their machines pretty hard. Yet... How many 8s came to be without extensive work to the M & A heads?

 

[lazaris]

I look at it like this, if you dont know how many people have actually tried to reach that goal, then you cant say it was the valve size.

 

[Alky V6]

I look at it like this, if you dont know how many people have actually tried to reach that goal, then you cant say it was the valve size.

I'm sure a lot of people didn't purposefully try to do 8s with those valve sizes. Me included!!! It just happened. Believe me, I wasn't expecting to click off an 8 that day. Let alone an 8.7.

 

[Alky V6]

Has anyone figured out what a 5.57 1/8 mile E.T. translates into for a 1/4 mile yet?

 

[lazaris]

I'm sure a lot of people didn't purposefully try to do 8s with those valve sizes. Me included. It just happened. Believe me, I wasn't expecting to click off an 8 that day. Let alone an 8.7.

Your sure? How do you know?? I thought you said you were trying for a an 8 or the HP required run it.

 

[Alky V6]

Your sure? How do you know?? I thought you said you were trying for a an 8 or the HP required run it.

Well, that's true to a point. My original goal with that engine was around 700 bhp. That's pretty close to what was common for those heads around that time period. After taking the car to a 1/4 mile track (Vegas) with the T76 and clicking off a low 9 with the car, the first time out to a 1/4 mile track with the car, it was in the back of my head that maybe the car might have an 8.99 in it. You know, just something where the first number was an 8. But, I wasn't that optimistic that I'd actually see the car get into the 8s. Let alone, get into the 8s as deep as I did on the first occurrence. At that point, I had never heard of anyone else getting into the eights without modifying the M & A heads for larger valves. Had you ever heard of it being done?
Another thing. That 8.7 was done at a time before I really started getting super serious about the chassis setup. You know that.
I had to take about three takes of that timeslip before I realized what I had done.

 

[lazaris]

Well, that's true to a point. After taking the car to a 1/4 track with the T76 and clicking off a low 9 with the car, the first time out to a 1/4 mile track with the car, it was in the back of my head that maybe the car might have it in it. But, I wasn't that optimistic that I'd actually see the car get into the 8s. Let alone, get into the 8s as deep as I did on the first occurrence. At that point, I had never heard of anyone else getting into the eights without modifying the M & A heads for larger valves. Had you ever heard of it being done?
Another thing. That 8.7 was done at a time before I really started getting super serious about the chassis setup. I had to take about three takes of that timeslip before I realized what I had done.

Had you heard it attempted and not accomplished?

 

[Alky V6]

Had you heard it attempted and not accomplished?

To tell you the truth, I've never really been in other peoples circles where I had knowledge of what their goals were and what machinery they were using to accomplish that goal. I just know some figures from performance examples of certain configurations that have been published.
As I've already posted, someone has shared that they thought there was one other individual during the 90s that may have been using those valves sizes and got into the eights. But even that person wasn't completely positive about that.
I can't imagine that there weren't a good number of people during the 90s that were trying to go as fast as they could with those heads. As fast as they could go doesn't mean stopping at some certain E.T. It means making the car go as fast as they can possibly make the car go, and when the car stops going any faster, that's when most people would stop and count that as the fastest the car will go.
Maybe I'm not real sure how other people do it with goals. Do most simply set an E.T. goal such as 11.50 and when they meet that goal, stop trying to see if the car will go faster? Even though they may have a good idea that the car can go faster? I would guess that the majority of people tend to push their car to the limit. At least until they get tired of running their credit cards up, and maybe mortgaging their home to the hilt.
Bracket and index racers will slow their car down to run a slower E.T. than the car is capable of, but even they know what the fastest time that their car will run is.

 

[Alky V6]

A 5.57 1/8 mile E.T. converts to an 8.84 1/4 mile E.T. using a simple calculator I found on the internet. Considering that I have to detune the engine to maintain traction on my less than optimum home track, I'd say we have a sign of possible consistency here.

 

[Alky V6]

Just playing with an online E.T. calculator, I see that it takes 1,030 rwhp to perform 158.7 MPH in the 1/4 mile with a car weight of 3,301 lbs.
Figuring a drivetrain loss of 15%, I come up with a flywheel hp of 1,212.
That sounds a bit high to me. Maybe my drivetrain losses are less than 15%?
BTW, the simple calculator also shows that for that MPH and weight, the E.T. should be 8.55.
I'm beginning to like these simpler calculators.

 

[lazaris]

To tell you the truth, I've never really been in other peoples circles where I had knowledge of what their goals were and what machinery they were using to accomplish that goal. I just know some figures from performance examples of certain configurations that have been published.
As I've already posted, someone has shared that they thought there was one other individual during the 90s that may have been using those valves sizes and got into the eights. But even that person wasn't completely positive about that.
I can't imagine that there weren't a good number of people during the 90s that were trying to go as fast as they could with those heads. As fast as they could go doesn't mean stopping at some certain E.T. It means making the car go as fast as they can possibly make the car go, and when the car stops going any faster, that's when most people would stop and count that as the fastest the car will go.
Maybe I'm not real sure how other people do it with goals. Do most simply set an E.T. goal such as 11.50 and when they meet that goal, stop trying to see if the car will go faster? Even though they may have a good idea that the car can go faster? I would guess that the majority of people tend to push their car to the limit. At least until they get tired of running their credit cards up, and maybe mortgaging their home to the hilt.
Bracket and index racers will slow their car down to run a slower E.T. than the car is capable of, but even they know what the fastest time that their car will run is.

So with that be said, there is no evidence the int. valve is a detriment.