To much zinc ???

[notacarlo]

Mobile 1 on my last motor (170k miles) and zddp. Number 3 exh lobe was worn according to the guy that bought it and disassembled it. Pulled hard to 5500 on stock cam and 100# springs before I sold the motor. I think I ran straight M1 for 8 years prior to adding zddp. If you are running stock train then I would throw the extra $ at the zddp.

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[626gn]

hello people; I've asked this before with RMI and really didn't get an answer but what is the shelf life of RMI and Z? I've collected a few bottles of each and I hope they don't go south before I get t use them. Also don't worry about starting a pissing contest as if your experiance is differant and what you worked. But there is someone here I'd like to piss on.
IBBY

Straight from the ZDDp website:

"The shelf life of ZDDPlus™ is essentially the same as regular motor oil (many years), as long as a few conditions are met. The temperature should be kept below 120 degrees F and above 0 degrees. You need to keep it sealed until it is mixed with motor oil. ZDDPlus™ has a tendency to absorb moisture, not unlike brake fluid. Absorption of water will degrade its performance, although heating it above 100C until it is not cloudy will restore it."

Not sure on the RMI-25 but I have a little bit left in the bottle that's been sitting for a few years. Still looks good. No clumping.

 

[HighMileage]

[quote="HighMileage, ]So how much ZDDP would be too much?

Quote: "At about 0.20% phosphorus the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling."

Source: http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/...c-other-myths-engine-oil-mythology-2-2007.pdf[/quote]


Thanks! Some good info there.

Ok,so how many oz's should be added to 5qts of oil so as not to go over the .20% phosphorus?

 

[RICER X]

Ok,
turbocamino1 and turbo nasty. Some of my testing was on a roller engine and I had upwards of 2200 PPM of zinc when VR-1 racing oil was tested after 1000 miles of driving and track passes. This was with one full bottle of ZDDP in it. Put 38,000 miles on that engine and when I sold it it still looked new inside and NO issues what so ever. Now I only put half a bottle in my roller engine. 10,000 miles and going strong.

I can tell you've done your homework so here's my questions, I still have about 5 or 6 gal. Mobil 1 left ( I stock up on stuff when I find a good price ) So with a FT stock cam, with the zddplus and my oil the ppm runs around 2400, is this sufficient. And also I keep seeing the same problem ever since I started this thread. The #3 lobe is getting wiped out is there some sort of a oiling issue?

 

[m233roller]

First off. How do you know you have around 2400 PPM. ? These cars were known for wiping the #3 exhaust lobe because that lifter bore is off set.

 

[RICER X]

First off. How do you know you have around 2400 PPM. ? These cars were known for wiping the #3 exhaust lobe because that lifter bore is off set.

The Mobil website said it had 1000 ppm and the zddplus site said it had 1387 ? ppm. I would have to look it up again. But I think that was the number.

 

[hiboom]

from what i've seen on some aftermarket cams they will do sort of a reverse grind on the number 3 lobe and the lifter spins the opposite direction to correct the problem with the lifter bore alignment to cam shaft

 

[m233roller]

Ricer, ok I see your doing some homework and if those numbers on M1 are correct I'd only ad 2/3rds of a bottle of ZDDP.

 

[RICER X]

Ricer, ok I see your doing some homework and if those numbers on M1 are correct I'd only ad 2/3rds of a bottle of ZDDP.

I found the site and it was a test done by Harris Testing Labs for Navone engineering. I didn't realize it was an independent test. But thank you, I just wanted to know the correct amount to use after reading an article about how harsh it was to use to much. I'm fairly new to these GN,s and have a lot to learn.

Ricer, ok I see your doing some homework and if those numbers on M1 are correct I'd only ad 2/3rds of a bottle of ZDDP.

 

[LEGACY_GN]

I lost a cam to Mobil one oil. If you have aftermarket springs on a flat tappet and use Mobil One or anything without ZDDP, you're going to have a bad time.

 

[LEGACY_GN]

245,000+ on the original flat tappet. After my car was stolen, and blown up, it now has a roller.

Perhaps it was ready to fail when the thieves ran it without coolant and oil pressure.


Still not a good comparison as you can't compare current cam blanks and lifters with 80's vintage blanks and tappets. It's apples and giraffes.

Zddp was in all oil till mid 90s. Did you have stock valve springs. Everything I read said the higher spring tension on the flat tappet is what does it.

 

[jlat]

hello people; I don't know how anyone could prove a failure due to an oil product but if one could that would be a whole new commercial. If I had info like that I'd be calling the manufacturer and make a stink. I know you only hear good things on stuff but if the shit hit the fan I'd tell all.
IBBY

 

[~drew~87'GrandNational]

Does anyone know if this additive is a good one for our engines? It's called hy-per lube Zinc replacement additive. This is the only one that my preferred vendor carries, but i will order something different if "zinc replacement additive'' isn't what i should be running. Or are they all ''replacements for zinc'' ? He knows what kind of car i own, and recommended this stuff, also said this is what the guys with full race engines buy. I figured this with good ole' Valvoline 10W-30 conventional aught to do it, but if anyone thinks (with reason) that this additive isn't sufficient for our turbo Buicks, please let me know. It was rather pricey, & on the back label it says ''exclusive polymer ester formula, when added to any motor oil will provide UP TO TWICE THE EP WEAR PROTECTION AS HIGH CONTENT ZDDP MOTOR OILS, safe for converters, provides complete wear protection for flat tappet cam design engines..''
-environmentally safe, NO HEAVY METALS, will not harm emission controls, or converters
-DOES NOT CONTAIN ZINC, OR PHOSPHOROUS
If this additive, along with Valvoline 10W-30 will be good to my GN, i don't mind paying $12-13 a bottle. So i guess my question is: Is zinc replacement additive acceptable in place of ZDDP ??
Attached is a picture of it.
Thanks in advance,
~drew~

 

[626gn]

I have no knowledge of the product you're asking about but this is the way I look at it. A lot of the guess work was taken out with the development of ZDDPlus. Why pay more for another product only to wonder if its any good? The benefits of ZDDPlus has been proven many times over.

I sometimes tend to overthink things but in this case I just add a bottle every oil change and don't look back nor do I even worry about if its doing what its supposed to do. Mr. Clark already took care of all that

 

[m233roller]

Enough Said !!

 

[~drew~87'GrandNational]

I have no knowledge of the product you're asking about but this is the way I look at it. A lot of the guess work was taken out with the development of ZDDPlus. Why pay more for another product only to wonder if its any good? The benefits of ZDDPlus has been proven many times over.

I sometimes tend to overthink things but in this case I just add a bottle every oil change and don't look back nor do I even worry about if its doing what its supposed to do. Mr. Clark already took care of all that

Yeah, i'll probably order some ZDDPlus... I was just wondering if anyone had ever heard of that stuff, or not. I, too over think things sometimes, but in this case, it was just a product that was readily available @ my usual parts house, & because i had never heard of it, figured i'd ask. The manager there has always been really cool, and helpful about making sure i get the right product for my classics. They like that most parts i order, they have to open a book to get, it keeps em on their toes. Hell, he's offered me a job there, with promise of room for advancement, & i may have taken it if they could've payed a bit more.. I have had a ton of these buick V6's in first gen Willys Jeep cj5's over the years, & i will say, that they have always had a reputation for weak cam lobes. Of coarse i found this out the hard way when i couldn't chase down a misfire to save my ass years ago, found out it had a wiped lobe.

Enough Said !!

...by you..Personally, i don't think there can ever be enough said on product development. I chose not to blindly follow the herd. But thanks for your valuable response. Everyone knows RICHARD CLARK is the man when it comes to GN's, & i certainly don't doubt ANY product he would ever release into the market.

 

[jlat]

hello people; I don't know if the product you have posted about is new or what but time will tell if it works.. Vendors are out there to make money but maybe there's something new that was discovered. You must have seen all types of commercials out there talking about new only to fogure out in the end they all suck.
IBBY

 

[~drew~87'GrandNational]

hello people; I don't know if the product you have posted about is new or what but time will tell if it works.. Vendors are out there to make money but maybe there's something new that was discovered. You must have seen all types of commercials out there talking about new only to fogure out in the end they all suck.
IBBY

I agree.. That's why i don't use products like Royal, Lucas, ect. in any classic cars. I kind of thought there's no real replacement for actual zinc/phosphorus, the same way there's no replacement for real lead additive in pre 1971 cars. To be honest, we got a little sidetracked because i hadn't been in there in awhile, so i didn't realize it wasn't actually a product with zinc until i got home. Also, for some reason the only VR1 they had in stock was 50 weight, n 20 wt.. Then in searching the forum, i found this thread, so i said ''why not post it, n see if anyone has heard of this stuff?'' ...Oh, well, i'll search the other parts houses for the real thing . Thanks man,
~drew~

 

[626gn]

I chose not to blindly follow the herd.

I can dig that. After all, where would we be if we all were sheep.

 

[A2000RICH]

guys some things to consider the Mobil 1 you buy today is not the same as it was a decade ago and the Mobil 1 you bought a decade ago is not the same as you bought two decades ago-------in order to keep API certification (necessary to maintain new car warranties) Mobile oil has had to continue reducing ZDDP to the specified levels to ensure the safety of the components necessary to meet the lowered emissions requirements of newer cars its really that simple virtually 100% of all API rated oils are limited to the same newer lower ZDDP standards no matter if they are syn or non syn I haven't tested major brands in the last couple years but i can promise you that ZDDP levels have NOT been increased what do you think matters most to the oil companies? the old car market or the modern car market??? the two markets are NOT compatible another thing to consider ANY additive product on the market that claims to have ZDDP that doesn't come with a caveat that warns about using it in OBD compliant cars has just enough ZDDP to make the claim but not enough to do our cars any good at all you can take that statement to the bank i will not mention any brand names but no company with assets worth mentioning would dare to take the chance on marketing a high ZDDP product to the general public where it could be used and a claim of damage could be made to a modern cars emission system talk about a class action suit that could ruin even the biggest company, that would be a certainty and while we are on that subject yes too much ZDDP can be almost as bad as not enough its like sugar in a cake you can have too much or too little and just right makes for a good cake All API SN formulation oils have similar ZDDP levels and over the last 8 years that we have been selling ZDDPlus we have been tweeking the formulation to keep abreast of whats happening in the automotive industry If you use a bottle of ZDDPlus in any API SN rated oil you will be just fine for 5 to 6 qts of oil remember that it starts to degrade with every revolution of the cam and thats why long oil changes are still not such a good idea even if a modern car can easily go for 8 to 10K miles before a change modern engines are a different animal from what we have in our GN's as for the "too much zinc" that one kinda makes me chuckle its not the zinc that you can overdo (within reason) ZDDP is composed of three things ZINC-PHOSPHORUS-SULFUR for it to to really protect the engine these have to be combined in just the right ratio for now i am not going to get into just how this works but its the Phosphorus that is dangerous if you overdose just over 4 years ago we actually made a big change to the ZDDPlus formulation and to date I only know of one other company that has followed our lead (and I am not going to say who the copy cat is) ZDDP as it has been formulated for decades always had a certain trigger temperature that activated its plating action on rubbing wear surfaces we experimented with a formulation that actually widened the activation temperature range both lower and higher after exhaustive testing in numerous engines ( quick--- guess what kind of engine ) we put that new formula in our ZDDPlus and it has been that way ever since everybody wanted to make it "new and improved" but i vetoed that because it sounded too corny One thing GN owners do not have to worry about is if ZDDPlus is not the best product possible for a GN I have as much at stake in this as anybody now something new----------- for the last 2 years Howie and I have been working on something new and exciting Howie is our resident tribology genius and some of you that have attended past TBN Nationals perhaps have met him ------- on the surface ZDDP (not just ZDDPlus but any ZDDP) appears to to be the magical perfect oil additive product-------it has been the last line of protection to millions of engines for over half a century--------to date no substitute has ever been found that works as good as ZDDP -----many have tried and many claims have been made over the years to no avail-------modern oils still contain a minimal amount because without it no one to date can formulate an oil that can actually protect an engine adequately-------its a fact-------it is so effective and superior to any other additive that in the API oil certification tests if you have a certain amount of ZDDP you are automatically passed in certain segments of the cam wear test sequences but like most things in life everything has its tradeoffs and there is one downside to ZDDP in oil for now I am not going to disclose what it is but compared to the benefits its still worth the downside but what if it could be circumvented? we have been working on a solution and we think we might have it it is an additional additive that acts like a catalyst improving the action of ZDDP and eliminates the one downside to using ZDDP the results are looking really good we are working on the final phase of our testing at the shop and hope to disclose the final results before summer !!!!!!!!!!!!! The GN community will be the first to see it