Track and Dyno Numbers

[esinger]

Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd post some information regarding some recent track times and dyno. Please feel free to comment. This is a continuation of my post http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/229527-getting-there-my-new-best.html

First are my track times. In November I was tuning my Turbo Tweak Street Chip, 93 octane w/ Razor Alky kit running 25 lbs of boost on Pep Boy Futuras. As my previous story goes, I can't leave on much boost at the line without spinning the tires like crazy.

Here's my numbers and for those with Powerlogger you can see the file named 11-18-07 Piedmont Run 4.dat
60' 1.967
MPH 85.42
ET 8.362

My next run was early this month. Basically everything is the same (93 octane w/ Razor Alky kit running 25 lbs of boost on Pep Boy Futuras), except I changed the to an Extender Alky chip I have and started tuning with it..

Here's those numbers and the attached Powerlogger file is 01-06-08 Piedmont Run 5.dat
60' 2.005
MPH 86.28
ET 8.362

NOTE: It's amazing I ran the exact ET on both runs on different dates

Finally I went to a large Turbo Buick meet at Richard Clarks with weekend. They were doing free Dynos (Thanks Richard!) and I was able to get my car on the Dyno. The only change I made to the car from the last above track run was took out 2 degrees of timing to get rid of the Knock I was having and programmed the Exender chip to lock the torque converter at 70 MPH. Even though I didn't adjust the boost at all, it went up to around 26 LBs

Here's my Dyno numbers (Unfortunately no graph) and the attached Powerlogger file is dyno-01-25-08.dat

Max Power 318.4 @ 4119 RPM / 87.8 MPH
with WCF 309.0

Max Torque 439.5 @ 3762 RPM / 77 MPH
with WCF 426.6

Thanks

 

[SloGN]

Way to go eric! when those ported heads get put on that thing is gonna run great :biggrin:

 

[boostmaster]

Dude thats fricken flying. 86mph in the 1/8 is good for mid to upper 12's in the 1/4. youe 60' is actually pretty good for those street tires.

 

[esinger]

Thanks Pat and boostmaster. I think the heads need a little work. The center exhaust port on one of the heads flows significantly less than the others. I really want to take my time and make sure they are right before slapping them on.

Pat I'll probably end up borrowing your MT drag radials next time I go to the track.

 

[SloGN]

Pat I'll probably end up borrowing your MT drag radials next time I go to the track.

well come and get them. but i gotta warn ya i'm not responsible for neck injuries :biggrin:

 

[esinger]

well come and get them. but i gotta warn ya i'm not responsible for neck injuries :biggrin:

I was looking at the weekend weather and it's going to be 60 degrees on Sunday. A quick look at Piedmont Dragway show them open on Sunday, Sooo....

I wonder if Mr. Bugs and his Nova will show up?

For the majority who don't know anything about this guy, he been itching to beat a GN for quite a while and figures my Hotair is a good place to start. We've gone to the strip twice and I beat him both times. Now he's got Nitrous and wants to hand my butt to me. So him on the bottle and me with decent tires should make a good race.

 

[Jerryl]

Very Nice Eric!
Thanks for posting!

 

[esinger]

Well, looks like it's going to be a comfortable day temperatures wise. Highs in the low to mid 60s.

Went by yesterday to see my friend Bill, he told me Mr. Bugs is suppose to be running 7.7's in the 1/8 mile now that he's on a 150 shot. Before his best was 8.38. Something doesn't quite seem right about his gains, but if h'e's there then I'll see this for myself. If he's right about his numbers, I may have my butt handed to me this time.

Bill had some monster slicks that he'd let me borrow for today, but I think they are too big for the back of my car. So I'm heading to Pat's this morning to retreive his M/T drag radials. If I can break into the 7s I'll be a happy guy (and probably buy a set of M/T for myself really soon).

Thanks Jerryl for the reply!

 

[Jerryl]

A couple of observations from those fabulous runs ;

O2's are a bit on the high side (810 - 820's)
On my car, low 790's equate to about 10.6 AFR

You may need to lower the timing in third about one degree.
I found that eliminating even minimal KR, the car will be faster, even if the timing is lowered.

Get'r done! :biggrin:

 

[esinger]

Hi Jerryl,

Thanks for the feed back. I was planning on lowering the O2s some today. they seemed a bit high like you said. I'll see what I can do with the extender chip, it's not as nice as the TT chip in regards to fine tuning. I have to go by even numbers in increasing/decreasing the timinng (2,4,6,etc..).

I'll probably tune in between 25 to 26 lbs of boost. Anything over 26 lbs feels like the edge of my combo based on 93 octane and Alky.

 

[Jerryl]

............ I'll probably tune in between 25 to 26 lbs of boost. Anything over 26 lbs feels like the edge of my combo based on 93 octane and Alky.

It is my belief that the TA49 is out of breath, based on the combo.
Looks like the car is also shifting at 4900/4800 rpm.
Shifting at 5100-5200 will help a lot.

Verify your TV cable setting ...... 2-3 shift looks soft .... Don't know

 

[esinger]

Well, how do I start this story?

My buddy Pat came by and dropped off the M/T drag radials. I slap them on, got everything square away and took off to the track.

First pass I decided to leave everything alone and just see what it would do. I did a good burnout, but got a little to head strong with the boost and launched with around 11 lbs. That was apparently too much for the tires, but what the heck.

First Run
60' 1.831
ET 8.146
MPH 86.11

I reviewed the powerlogger and had at one point about 2 degrees of knock. The O2s seemed higher than I've seen them before, so decided to take 2% fuel out and 2 degress less timing out using the translator plus. Got back in line and waited for a while (conversations about GNs abound with other people waiting). Anyway, the line starts moving and I'm almost up. For some reason I decided to check the scanmaster and flipped to BLM display and I saw 160 I popped the hood and jumped out of the car and quickly examined for anything obvious. Nothing was obvious but I did hear a hissing sound which was a sure sign of a vacuum leak. Well I had to make a quick decision, so I flipped the WOT fueling back to normal and left the timing set the way it is (started with 2 degrees retard, now with 4 degrees of retard). Shut the hood and decided to do the run anyway, the last run was with the same issues and it didn't blowup so what the heck.

Second run I did a really terrible burnout (I lost focus, mind on the BLMs), but did basically a no boost launch

60' 1.980
ET 8.348
MPH 86.07

After the run I popped the hood and looked all over the place and couldn't find the leak. BLMs were still at 160, so I decided to pack it up and go home.

Tale of two leaks!

So I made it home and used some carb cleaner and found the first leak. It was in the back of the intake and I must have blew off the line going to the vacuum canister that controls the environmental controls with boost. I plugged than make in and restarted the car. The BLMs came down to 145, but that still wasn't normal, so I go over ever place I can imagine with carb cleaner and with no results. Flashback a week ago at the dyno pull, I was told the exhaust got glowing red hot during the pull, so I decided to check the exhaust for leaks. I jacked the car up, got it running and started feeling around for unexpected hot gases, well sure enough there a small exhaust leak on the drivers side header.

 

[esinger]

Here's the Powerlogger files from both runs. I was completely mistaken about the amount of boost at launch. Both were on vacuum, not boost. The first was -3 and last was -11.

You can see the BLMs at 160 at, but when I go WOT they drop to 134.

If you look at the very end of the Dyno pull power logger file you can see the BLMs jump to 160. The Dyno run did it for sure.

 

[Jerryl]

Here's the Powerlogger files from both runs. I was completely mistaken about the amount of boost at launch. Both were on vacuum, not boost. The first was -3 and last was -11.

You can see the BLMs at 160 at, but when I go WOT they drop to 134.

If you look at the very end of the Dyno pull power logger file you can see the BLMs jump to 160. The Dyno run did it for sure.

Eric,
I went back and looked at your dyno run log.
The BLM in the first cell are at 160 before the pull, indicating a vacuum leak. (X-count look active)
This cell is the "idle BLM cell". ECM is adding fuel.

The WOT cell (#8) went from 133 to 125.
I don't think the "dyno run" ruined anything.
Looks like the leak(s) were present before the run from 2000 miles away.

 

[esinger]

Thanks for the look Jerryl. I'm going to have to go through all my data logs to see when this happened.

I see a real need to create a check list before going to the track or dyno'ing again and probably an after run/dyno checklist was well. It may sound kind of extreme to do something like this, but it may save $$$ in the long run.

I think while I'm getting the exhaust leak fix, it may be the time to purchase the wideband O2 that I've been promising myself. There's a big desire to get those ported heads on the car, but it's going take more time and money to get those heads in tip top shape, order the cam, pull the engine,etc…

 

[esinger]

Ordered the wideband O2 yesterday and decided to get some new rear lower control arms to replace the stock ones. I worked out all the vacuum leaks and BLM are now at a manageable 133. When I get the wideband I’ll get the bung and exhaust leak welded. Just need another warm Sunday and I’ll be set!

 

[esinger]

Spent a lot of time yesterday on the car. Installed the lower control arms, the wideband O2 bung and welded the exhaust leak (Driver's side header).

The lower control arms firmed up the rear end. I can really can feel the difference. I told my friend Pat about it and he said that's probably because the bushings on the old arms shot since they were 23 years old.

The wideband numbers look pretty good, except when I did a gentle roll into WOT then they moved down into the 9.90 range. That just confirms what I suspected, the engine is running too rich at WOT.

I thought the vacuum leak had been licked, but at idle I'm still seeing BLM at 146. Anything other than idle they are prefectly in the 128 range. So the hunt continues.

 

[boostmaster]

The wideband numbers look pretty good, except when I did a gentle roll into WOT then they moved down into the 9.90 range. That just confirms what I suspected, the engine is running too rich at WOT.

I thought the vacuum leak had been licked, but at idle I'm still seeing BLM at 146. Anything other than idle they are prefectly in the 128 range. So the hunt continues.

Not too rich if that run was with alcohol. The chemical signature is different from gas and will yield lower a/f ratios. You need to research this in the alcohol forum before jumping too any conclusions. As for the BLM if you have searched everywhere and not found any vacuum leaks and still have high numbers a bad chip or bad maf sensor can be suspect. Swap with known good units and retest starting with the maf first.

 

[esinger]

I checked again this morning and couldn't find any vacuum leaks. I have a TT chip that I can switch to, so I can try that easy enough. The LT1 MAF is two years old, but I can swing by a place and get it tested.

I'm looking at pull the engine in the not too distant future to put some port heads in, so if I can't find it in the short haul I'll probably find the issue then or just fix it when I throw everything back together.

I was reading a couple of threads and it seems that 10.8 to 11.0 is a starting target. So based on that, 9.90 is a bit rich.

 

[Jerryl]

I checked again this morning and couldn't find any vacuum leaks. I have a TT chip that I can switch to, so I can try that easy enough. The LT1 MAF is two years old, but I can swing by a place and get it tested.

I'm looking at pull the engine in the not too distant future to put some port heads in, so if I can't find it in the short haul I'll probably find the issue then or just fix it when I throw everything back together.

I was reading a couple of threads and it seems that 10.8 to 11.0 is a starting target. So based on that, 9.90 is a bit rich.

Eric,
I checked EVERYTHING about 20 times and could not get the idle BLM down.
Try changing the translator to "rich idle" if you would like to get closer to 128.

The TT chip is an "open loop idle chip", so it takes the reading (from my observation) about 3 seconds after placing the car in Park ..... this sets the Idle BLM cell. The "open loop" is partially what improves and smooths the idle.

The BLM of 128 is not as important as one would think, as long as the BLM is not maxed out on either side. My BLM is around 140 as well (at idle) without any ill effects. You may find out that closing off the PVC will decrease BLM.

Regarding AFR
The lower the BSFC, the more HP you will make, "leaner is meaner".
There is a point where you have to run richer to suppress KR if the operating conditions warrant this.
Some will run 10:1, while others run 11:1. The trick is to find out what your combo likes.
A good starting point is 10.5:1 and lean it out from there.
You will find that a typical increase VE, results in BSFC decrease.

Boostmaster has extensive experience and has documented some killer runs, and, I am in no way negating his experience and feedback.
You just need to find out what your combo likes.