Trans brake...manual or electric? Whats the deal?

[Jayz 87G.N.]

I know how the typical electric,push button type t-brake works... what im wondering is about the manual one. I asked a guy who had one and he explained it to me like this:

"when at a complete stop, put the car in first, and the brake will lock up. Start to stall up, then push the shifter into drive when youre ready to go...".

Now what im wondering is how do you get the car back into first because i like the low gear. Or are you pretty much stuck in drive when using a manual brake? Im sure this is probably a dumb question, but i really have no idea. As always any and all help is appreciated. Jay

 

[toofastforyou]

Manual vs. electric trans-brake...

Jay, I've tried both setups and let me tell you that electric ones ar by far the best ones. Those manual "Stage-Right" type trans-brakes aren't worth no s***! It is almost impossible to "cut" a good light at the tree with this kind of device, especially when you have to stage the car, bring up the boost, and try to cut a decent light with having to worry that you'll push it forward too far!...They're good on the street, only if what you want to do is to bring up the boost, slam the shifter forward, and do a big smoke show to impress everyone around, but that's about it. If you intend to do some serious racing at a race track, get the electric one.
The electric ones are more expensive, but more reliable, and makes it easy to cut a good light by just releasing the button! Like I said, more expensive, but you get what you're paying for! Believe me Jay, I've had both, and I removed the Stage-Right to have Erik at Dynotech install an electric one ( "Bat Brake", by Performance Transmissions) while he was rebuilding the whole transmission. He did a great job, and after a complete racing season, not a single problem!
Erik is the man!

'bye! Claude.

 

[TurboDave]

Add my vote to the mechanical T-brake being a piece of *&%$.

I ran one for an entire season. Here's the problems (and I even have an aftermarket shifter that allowed me to slam it as quickly as I could without worry of breaking the shifter mechanism):

I don't understand the why's and wherefore's but it has a HUGE amount of rollout!! Example, if I roll into the lights, and needed to get up on a little bit of boost so it doesn't take too long once staged, I come up against the converter in the pre stage beam, and let the car move into the stage beam, pull the shifter into low to engage the "brake", release the foot brake and now the car starts this +/- 6" rocking motion because I released the foot brake and unloaded everything.
You can see this by just putting the car in low (a car with the manual brake) and getting out of the car and rocking it forward and backward by hand. It will move a bunch.
This wasn't slop in my differential, it has something to do with the way that particular brake works.

Trying to cut a light? Maybe the young guys can relearn a whole new set of movements, but I never could.

I've been racing, off the foot brake for over 30 years now. I have always had modestly good luck leaving as the last yellow was just starting to come on (just after the previous light had dimmed completely). I've been able to keep my reaction times somewhat close to the high 500's to very low 600's this way with this particular car.
Leaving on any other method than that is a hard habit to break, and I couldn't. The mechanical brake added a full tenth to my reaction times, and took me completely out of any competition I ended up making. They are incredibly slow to react!

Not so with the electronic brakes. Their reaction time is measured in microseconds, NOT tenths.

 

[Nick Micale]

To answer your question, no, you cannot lock the trans in first gear as that is where it is in "transbrake" with a stage right-type.

As far as them "not working good", lots of local guys are using them with very good success. Have personally seen many good reaction times including a .501 light. It is a matter of knowing your particular car and how to stage it.

Not trying to bash anyone, just giving info I know and have seen. Couple local racers with it are consistant winners against elec. brake V-8's

 

[Intercooler]

Isn't that what Jason Cramer has (Stage-Right) and won his class this year at the Nat's? I just got my trans back from the shop and it has a Stage-Right in it so the experience is new to me. I don't bracket race but look forward to launching it off the brake a few times to see what difference it makes.

Ken,

I have a non-lock valve sitting on my bench. Want a picture of it for the photo guide?

 

[Jayz 87G.N.]

Thanx guys!

Thanks for the prompt responses. Im a mustang guy trying to learn as much about my new toy as soon as possible. So what you guys are saying is with the manual brake my first gear is pretty much useless? I believe im going with the electric brake but i figured for the 300 dollar price difference it was worth doing a little research on both. And on that note... where can i find a electric brake at a decent price? New or used doesnt matter...

Thanx again, Jay

 

[Scott231]

Originally posted by Intercooler
Isn't that what Jason Cramer has (Stage-Right) and won his class this year at the Nat's?

Not only does Jason use this "manual" transbrake, but he was cutting some of the lowest reaction times in TSM with it.

BTW, you wanna guess who is actually manufacturing the Stage Right brake components?

 

[machinegun]

I myself use the stage right. First thing is, if your 200r4 is built correct and the tv cable is set correct then the 1-2 shift should be on the money all the time. The 1-2 shift comes so quick that you are better off letting the trans do the work. Especially for conssitency. My second time out at the track with this car and a stage right, my reaction times were 535, 536, 535. I would say that is pretty consistant. I am used to the electric brakes from my charger. This was actually very easy to learn and use to me. I like mine. I would like to go to an electric but the cost is what kept me from doing it also. I like mine and it seems to work well.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Originally posted by TurboDave
release the foot brake and now the car starts this +/- 6" rocking motion because I released the foot brake and unloaded everything.

I have a Stage Right in my GN and also have noticed the rollout problem. I just lightly leave my left foot on the brake pedal so I don't lose the preload on the drivetrain and then engage the trans brake. I have done my best times with the brake, simple installation and reasonable cost too. I am not a hard core racer though, only making it to the track about once a year.


QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott231
BTW, you wanna guess who is actually manufacturing the Stage Right brake components?[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, wouldn't be Jason by any chance?

 

[Two Lane]

All I know about the Stage Right system is that Turbo-Mike is/was a distributor.

Who does actually make them?

Who invented it?

TIA!!

 

[Scott231]

The Stage Right for the turbo buicks was the idea of Kevin Mallender. Kevin handed off the machine shop work to Jason. Kevin is now out of the Buick scene for reasons unrelated to automobiles, but Jason is still making the stage right parts.

 

[Two Lane]

Thanks for the info, Scott.

That Jason is making them should attest to the quality of a Stage-Right system.

 

[Intercooler]

The guys running the Stage-Right.... how much difference did it make from you best foot-brake 60 ft. compared to with the brake?

 

[Otto J]

I use the Stage-Right trans brake and i have had no problems with it,I do get a little rollout,but if you no how to stge the car using it,it is not a problem at all.And ill say my t-brake releases instantly,and my reaction times are as good as any others,Like was said above,you must use it and get used to it and you will cut good reaction times.I may have gone with the electric brake,but like you said it is more pricey and you must modify or replace you tranny pan so it fits.
As far as 60 foots wemt from a 1.70(pushing through the lights) to consistent 1.5 on a 9" wide tire
Otto

 

[brian]

Jesse,
In response to your ? about 60fts. Mine went fom crappy 1.7`s to a best of 1.45. That one was followed with a 1.47. 15lb launch though!
Brian

 

[jmidolo]

For anyone interested, I've got a StageRight for sale in the parts section

Joe

 

[Intercooler]

Brian and KLHAMMETT,

That is a nice pick-up there! You guys running any billet or hardened parts? I got blue clutches for direct, wide band and a billet band anchor pin put in this tranny. It is like 60/40 the people that I have talked with that said you don't need billet. Shertz (sp?) said it is okay to put it in but if I recall I don't think he even has it in his 9 second 200 . If I break the input shaft or drum I guess I will pay then but I will also opt for the billet pieces at that time. I can't wait to try it out!

 

[buickboy]

I was running a stageright on every pass the last half of the season. Absolutely loved it. Roll out-sometimes a little,but for the most part, rock solid when i engaged it. I also went from 1.7 pushing to 1.54 and no more red lights rolling through. Just shallow stage and engage it. Just broke the drum shaft in the last race, but 18 lb launches will do that. Billet parts about to go in and more fun at the track this spring.
Mitch

 

[Boston GN]

So I can call up Jason and get a Stage Right brake?
What's involved in the install?

 

[Scott231]

As I recall, to install a Stage Right, you A) ream out a hole to a larger diameter in the valvebody (the correct sized drill bit is supplied) and you change out the manaul valve...done.

I didn't get the monstrous results that alot of people get when switching from footbraking the car at the line. My best 60 on the footbrake came on my first 10-second pass (a 10.91 with a 1.51 short time). Since then I have used a Stage Right once (and was rewarded with a 1.49 short time), but blew a head gasket on that pass. I then went to a BAT brake and have done no better than the 1.51 (sans a single 1.48), but have been in the 1.5x range MUCH, MUCH more consistently. The biggest benefit to me was the elimination of the possiblity of rolling through the starting line before the green light...but you get that with either transbrake.