Tuning help IL

[Therealbobjones]

Hello, first time gn owner looking for some tuning help or a shop to go through some tuning on my new car. It’s a mild build on E85 and after driving the car for a few days I’m seeing a lot of kr?
Thank you in advance

Potenza performance.

Hello, first time gn owner looking for some tuning help or a shop to go through some tuning on my new car. It’s a mild build on E85 and after driving the car for a few days I’m seeing a lot of kr?
Thank you in advance

https://m.facebook.com/PotenzoPerformance/

Ron is awesome. Super good dude , honest, and knows what's up.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

A couple things...
1. The heat marks on the ground straps are not consistent.
2. Why extended tip plugs?

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

With everything being equal, that engine should run like a top on Erics default settings. You removed 6 degrees of high gear timing if you moved it to 110. I ran CR43TS plugs from my friendly GM dealer. Again, I'm not an E85 guy, so ask for a correct plug. Kindly answer Chucks plug question. You said you're seeing KR slowly leaning into it. I'm taking a wild guess that 340 pump ain't cutting it. Disconnecting the orange wire by the battery will reset Erics chip to default. Put correct plugs in it from a gent on here that's well versed in E85. When you do that, I'd add the whole 20 percent of high gear fuel and slowly lean into it...but get out of it immediately if you see a hint of KR. If the KR comes on a tad later then it ain't getting enough fuel and it needs the bigger pump. I'd contact Eric for pump size, but I bet he's gonna tell you it needs something larger.

 

[foxbody95]

A couple things...
1. The heat marks on the ground straps are not consistent.
2. Why extended tip plugs?

Not sure on the extended tips that’s what I was told to run in it when I bought the car, which was recommended for champion iron ported heads?

 

[foxbody95]

With everything being equal, that engine should run like a top on Erics default settings. You removed 6 degrees of high gear timing if you moved it to 110. I ran CR43TS plugs from my friendly GM dealer. Again, I'm not an E85 guy, so ask for a correct plug. Kindly answer Chucks plug question. You said you're seeing KR slowly leaning into it. I'm taking a wild guess that 340 pump ain't cutting it. Disconnecting the orange wire by the battery will reset Erics chip to default. Put correct plugs in it from a gent on here that's well versed in E85. When you do that, I'd add the whole 20 percent of high gear fuel and slowly lean into it...but get out of it immediately if you see a hint of KR. If the KR comes on a tad later then it ain't getting enough fuel and it needs the bigger pump. I'd contact Eric for pump size, but I bet he's gonna tell you it needs something largerlol

With everything being equal, that engine should run like a top on Erics default settings. You removed 6 degrees of high gear timing if you moved it to 110. I ran CR43TS plugs from my friendly GM dealer. Again, I'm not an E85 guy, so ask for a correct plug. Kindly answer Chucks plug question. You said you're seeing KR slowly leaning into it. I'm taking a wild guess that 340 pump ain't cutting it. Disconnecting the orange wire by the battery will reset Erics chip to default. Put correct plugs in it from a gent on here that's well versed in E85. When you do that, I'd add the whole 20 percent of high gear fuel and slowly lean into it...but get out of it immediately if you see a hint of KR. If the KR comes on a tad later then it ain't getting enough fuel and it needs the bigger pump. I'd contact Eric for pump size, but I bet he's gonna tell you it needs something larger.

thats the odd part everything was set on default and it ran amazing would pull very hard, I drove it for a couple days then out of no where it started pulling timing. I only replaced those plugs because that’s what was recommended to run with those heads. I guess I could call champion heads on Monday and see what the recommend running. As far as the fuel pump it’s not running out yet I installed a gauge and taped it to my windshield to today, set base do at 45 and went and ran it easy pressure never fell and would rise with whatever boost I put on it.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Pressure vs volume are two different things. When you install the recommended plugs, add 20 percent 3rd gear fuel. If the KR comes on a little later, then I'd guess you have a fuel delivery problem. Again, as soon as you see a hint of KR, get out of it.

 

['87 Turbo "T"]

I have installed a wideband and the afr drops down in the 10’s -11 so I don’t believe it’s a lean condition. I have -8 -6 fuel lines already. I removed the knock sensor cleaned and retorqued to 14 ft lbs. replaced the plugs with Ngk ur6’s and am going to install a gauge on the windshield to watch fp. Nothing is hitting anywhere that I can see and I’ll start getting kr at around 10 psi just easing into it, a lot more if I stab it. I will order the power logger today if it’s beneficial

Just an FYI if you can, change your AFR setting. You don't want 10-11 with 85. That's a gas reading. You want to be around the 9 range with 85.

Also you should see no knock with 85. Not saying it isn't possible, but E85 should be roughly 100+ octane. So check for everything that could be giving you false knock(wiring included). I had a crack on the yellow wire(at the ESC module) causing knock reading issues. Got a new set-up from Casper's & fixed that issue.

Also Scoob has a valid point. Check your fuel pump & pressure. I run E85 with 120's & I run a DW400 pump w/10 gauge hotwire, & I ran a 10ga ground from the pump back to the battery.

 

[TType85]

Just an FYI if you can, change your AFR setting. You don't want 10-11 with 85. That's a gas reading. You want to be around the 9 range with 85.

This is one place I always have questions. Doesn't the wide-band measure lambda (or is it stoich?), the gauge just converts it to a number that is the scale you want? I run a flex fuel setup with my Holley and keep it on the gas scale as that number makes more sense to me. E85 might be a bit different on where max power is but my car seems to like it more like 11-11.5 on the gas scale.

 

[foxbody95]

Pressure vs volume are two different things. When you install the recommended plugs, add 20 percent 3rd gear fuel. If the KR comes on a little later, then I'd guess you have a fuel delivery problem. Again, as soon as you see a hint of KR, get out of it.

Pressure vs volume are two different things. When you install the recommended plugs, add 20 percent 3rd gear fuel. If the KR comes on a little later, then I'd guess you have a fuel delivery problem. Again, as soon as you see a hint of KR, get out of it.

Ok will do, thank you for the help I will order a set of no projector plugs and try it, I was also recommended by a a shop by mean to just buy the tr6 ignition setup

 

[foxbody95]

Ok will do, thank you for the help I will order a set of no projector plugs and try it, I was also recommended by a a shop by mean to just buy the tr6 ignition setup

also when I was driving today a added almost all the fuel and it went to 9.6 afr gas scale I didn’t change it to the lambda scale

 

[foxbody95]

Just an FYI if you can, change your AFR setting. You don't want 10-11 with 85. That's a gas reading. You want to be around the 9 range with 85.

Also you should see no knock with 85. Not saying it isn't possible, but E85 should be roughly 100+ octane. So check for everything that could be giving you false knock(wiring included). I had a crack on the yellow wire(at the ESC module) causing knock reading issues. Got a new set-up from Casper's & fixed that issue.

Also Scoob has a valid point. Check your fuel pump & pressure. I run E85 with 120's & I run a DW400 pump w/10 gauge hotwire, & I ran a 10ga ground from the pump back to the battery.

The shop I took it too really thought it was false knock aswell and recommend going through the wiring schematic for the esc module and all the powers and grounds, then upgrading to a tr6 to start

 

['87 Turbo "T"]

also when I was driving today a added almost all the fuel and it went to 9.6 afr gas scale I didn’t change it to the lambda scale

HOLY SHIT!!! If you’re running E85 that’s rich AF!!! That puts you at roughly a low to mid 6ish E85 AFR which is not good!!

Why buy a TR6 if you don’t need one? I have one. I like it. Like the options, two step rev-limiter, trouble codes, etc.

 

['87 Turbo "T"]

The shop I took it too really thought it was false knock aswell and recommend going through the wiring schematic for the esc module and all the powers and grounds, then upgrading to a tr6 to start

The knock system is fairly easy. ESC modules rarely if ever go bad. If you have no MAL code your ESC is likely good.

You can test knock sensor by revving over 12 or 1500 RPM’s(lower RPM’s won’t register in Eric’s chip) & tap on the block to see if it responds.

Blk/Wht-Ground
Dark blue-Knock sensor
Pink/Blk-Ignition voltage
Yellow/Black-goes to ECM

 

[foxbody95]

I just richened it way up to rule out a lean knock that’s all I have it turned back down to base settings. The tr6 was just recommended by a bunch of gn guys, said it was the first move they’d make I don’t plan on using any of the functions just want the car to run clean. Thank you for the wiring I will check that out when I get home

 

[mblum]

Something else to inspect is the condition of the wiring harness on the car, specifically the pins/sockets on any areas that are causing issues. Afterall these are approaching 40 years old now.

Initially on my 86 I had a bunch of small inconstant issues with my ignition system and the sockets in the plug at the ignition module and ECU had some damaged pins/sockets and some corrosion. From the outside the harness looks just fine, but not knowing the history, who has worked on it and what was done to the car these little issues can be frustrating. I ended up replacing the pigtails on both ECU leads and the ignition module with pieces from Casper's Electronics. The car ran much better after this.

I don't believe this to be your current issue with KR, but just something to keep in the back of your mind.

 

[foxbody95]

I will start pulling the connections to check for any corrosion I picked up a set of Ngk 4323 plugs the non projected tips, and ordered a baileys tr6 ignition system to rule out the ignition side.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

You don't need the TR6.

 

[foxbody95]

You don't need the TR6.

Well you were right the tr6 didn’t change anything. I did replace to non projected Ngk plugs and verified I have good power and ground at the knock module.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

If you eventually can't find this and the cars gonna sit, pull the injectors and get them cleaned/flowed. It just takes 1 injector to be out of whack and you'll get knock, E85 has side effects.

Since you bought the car recently and might not know the detailed history of the past on it you might need to go deeper into the fuel system. Take it from someone who's been running E85 since maybe 2007 and then let the car sit for a long time, the fuel system went to hell (white chalk) and the injectors needed a good cleaning and flow check. I used to get injector goo and had mini pebbles in my fuel filter etc, it was a mess with tuning etc.

Good luck

 

[BEATAV8]

If you have genuine knock you will see speckles on the porcelains on the plugs. Black speckles or worse yet little specks of aluminum (bits of piston). You’d hear it rattling if that were happening. I don’t see any specks in your pic.