Turbo redesign for a carb turbo system

[charlief1]

Water cooling has been popular for at least 10 years....
Our Buicks are OLD tech!!

Charlie....In general, from what I understand turbo sizing is rpm related. In other words, a larger turbo will make more power at a higher rpm, at the expense of losing some low rpm power.
However, having different exhaust/intake 'sides' throws other variables into the equation!
The exhaust side is more rpm sensitive... smaller= better response, larger= better hi rpm breathing.
But is the intake side less rpm sensitive... I can see how larger intake sizing will move more air without any downsides (other than inertia and load losses).
And I can see how the '86 turbine/exducer design is more efficient. And how the larger 301 TTA compressor side will compress the air more. But I wonder why Buick didn't incorporate this in their original design.
What are the downsides to your setup, if any?

I'm basically doing the same design as the 86-87 turbo but it's for us alone. The intake will be the biggest issue. I can't do anything until the parts get back so I'm stuck in limbo at the moment. Aj's got one of the 301 turbos now and is looking for an alternative to the odd sized wheel. From reading the turbo maps you should get better flow and faster boost if you do the same thing as the IC cars. Bigger down pipe ect for the cars. These cars will respond the same but you need to know what you're doing. they aren't for the usual "bolt it on and go" guys.

The only reason I can Think that Buick didn't do it was detonation issues. They had H-ll with the 301 and the V6's to keep them alive before they developed SFI and this would keep the CAFE average to satisify the government and hopefully satisy the the public with power.:biggrin:

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I have to agree that there wasnt enough carb turbo data available then to make using the 301 wheel on the 3.8 resonable. They were still figting alot of lag issues, as turbines had still to be fully understood.

the 301 wheel is interesting, but in the end, not a great choice for a higher HP engine. perfect for a stocker which has an airflow of 30lbs a minute or less. having unported heads and a small cam are benifical whith the stock 301 wheel to get your pressure ratio closer to 2.0 or 2.2 with the lower flow puts you right in the sweet spot of compressor effiency which keeps the charge temps managable... which are very close to the stock wheel. So all the extra boost and flow for a mild change in charge temp.

the 301 wheel is the stock carb turbo answer.

:biggrin:A.j.

 

[WarWagon]

Ahhhhh Hurry up and WAIT!!!!

 

[mat231v6]

hey A.J i hear you have a extra 301 blade; do you want to sell it to me pm me if you do?

 

[charlief1]

I have to agree that there wasnt enough carb turbo data available then to make using the 301 wheel on the 3.8 resonable. They were still figting alot of lag issues, as turbines had still to be fully understood.

the 301 wheel is interesting, but in the end, not a great choice for a higher HP engine. perfect for a stocker which has an airflow of 30lbs a minute or less. having unported heads and a small cam are benifical whith the stock 301 wheel to get your pressure ratio closer to 2.0 or 2.2 with the lower flow puts you right in the sweet spot of compressor effiency which keeps the charge temps managable... which are very close to the stock wheel. So all the extra boost and flow for a mild change in charge temp.

the 301 wheel is the stock carb turbo answer.

:biggrin:A.j.

I think you finally see the light Aj.:biggrin: You have to remember that when the cars were built the best example of a turbo set up was a diesel because they used them the most. Reacing with a turbo at the time was exotic to say the least. Take a look at the Indy cars from this time. If you want to see some interesting designs look at the Offenhauser 4 cylinder. It could be stroked or destroked to get anything from 2.0L to 3.0L and it was in a lot of Indy cars as well as some others.

Ahhhhh Hurry up and WAIT!!!!

No kidding Adam.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

hey A.J i hear you have a extra 301 blade; do you want to sell it to me pm me if you do?

I might..... would you want to trade for your old housing?

I will tell you what, if I can get your old housing to clean up with my bigger wheel, then I will trade you cold sides.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

I just realized this thread is a year old now. I can't believe it's taken this long to do the mods but money is tight for me as it is for everyone. I've got a little more in the bank right now so I may be able to get things going to the potential I'm hoping for this spring. I do hope eveyone has enjoyed the research and info about doing this mod.

Don't forget to rate this thread and we may be able to make it the second sticky for the forum.

 

[mat231v6]

well im looking for the intake blade because i want to make the hybrid turbo like charlies. my blades are all messed up so im looking for someone who has a extra. do you know if a 87 turbo intake blades will work, or any other year cars blades work.

 

[mat231v6]

how do you rate a thread?

 

[BeanSS]

how do you rate a thread?

If you look at the top of the thread by the first post you'll see it...it's on the tool bar where you can subscribe to a thread and all that other stuff

(Yaaayyyy I contributed some helpful info to this thread!!) I feel good now!

 

[WarWagon]

No way Mat. A 301 wheel is the only thing that fits in the cover with out mods. You can put bigger wheels in smaller covers if they are machined for it but you can't go the other way.

 

[charlief1]

well im looking for the intake blade because i want to make the hybrid turbo like charlies. my blades are all messed up so im looking for someone who has a extra. do you know if a 87 turbo intake blades will work, or any other year cars blades work.

No way Mat. A 301 wheel is the only thing that fits in the cover with out mods. You can put bigger wheels in smaller covers if they are machined for it but you can't go the other way.

Bingo! That's what Aj's looking at right now. he's thinking about having the cover machined so he can use a more conventional inducer wheel. Send him a PM and see what he's found out so far.

If you look at the top of the thread by the first post you'll see it...it's on the tool bar where you can subscribe to a thread and all that other stuff

(Yaaayyyy I contributed some helpful info to this thread!!) I feel good now!

LOL Thanks Bean. Glad to see you on again.:smile:

 

[dr_frankenstein]

right on the money charlie.... right on the money.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

When you find out what you're going to use post some sort of pics and info Aj. That way there will be an option besides the stock wheel. I've got a complete spare but I don't want to do anything to it if theres an option for a better wheel out there.

BTW, has anyone checked out the link backs at the bottom yet. Some interesting stuff down there.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Dirty Inliners trying to get our kool aid. I think we should block the link back ability.













































just kidding Inliners..... glad to see you appreciate our work.

feel free to ask any of us personally! dont be scurred!
drfrankenstein56@yahoo.com
A.j.

 

[charlief1]

LOL I found it interesting that they're using this thread for their project info. It's had almost as many views as Rich's sticky now and has other boards looking at it. I never though I'd have that happen. It's a hoot to me though.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

its good stuff charlie.

I will tell you why........

we are the draw thru data now.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

Very true Aj. I would've never believed anything like this would happen though. I was doing it for the benifit of the Buick guys and I think I caused a run on 301 turbo because of it. I found one on evilbay the other day and it went for about $230. I've never seen one go that high before. LOL

Well, off to work to sub for someone. His wife screwed up her leg and I have to cover for him now. BBL.

 

[mat231v6]

here are some pics of the housing. IF ANYONE HAS A EXTRA 301 COMPRESSOR BLADE TELL ME I MIGHT WANT TO BUY IT FROM YOU.

 

[WarWagon]

OOOOOOOO
I've seen that before! That's FOD: Foreign Object Damage.
Mat someone dropped a small tool, a random bolt or nut, a rock, something! right down the carb and just let the compressor wheel get destroyed by it. Might have even taken a short trip with the air filer off and something got sucked right into the engine.
Mystery solved.