Update: I really do have 0 degrees timing, and run 12.3 @ 113

[Berman]

Originally posted by Berman

Fairly minorly, but hey a blown headgasket is a blown headgasket. And the car went 12.3 @ 113.

Ok, this is what got me in trouble. Doubt the gasket was blown then.

I personally can't stand the BSers, it makes getting real information difficult. You guys here don't know me on ls1.com or anything, but I always post the truth, even when my car doesn't run what it should (the story of my TA's life, heh). I will get my OWN timeslips, scan them and then post them before I talk again.

Goddam I was thinking everyone on this site was more mature and not so quick to jump on people like a lot of the hotheads on ls1.com

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Berman, take it easy. People on here get a little heated under the collar sometimes too! People don't believe that Orlando runs 10.03 on the stock block, pistons etc with 009s.

Do you hang with the Hurricain Performance guys? Are you a member of the SFFBA?

I think several of us are going to moroso on or around the 14th.

 

[striker_29]

Berman, dont sweat it dude. I dont think your BS'n us here, just too many things dont sound right about that situation. I dont doubt at all that what you are telling us is your perception of it. Hell it may be the case for all I know, just dont see how it could be. Most of us are just confused I think, so we are cracking a few jokes. Try to take it with a grain of salt, we're just kiddin around man. And let us know when you get to the bottom of this thing, my interest is definatley peaked

 

[Berman]

Originally posted by BLACK6PACK
Berman, take it easy. People on here get a little heated under the collar sometimes too! People don't believe that Orlando runs 10.03 on the stock block, pistons etc with 009s.

Do you hang with the Hurricain Performance guys? Are you a member of the SFFBA?

I think several of us are going to moroso on or around the 14th.

I know I got defensive, I at first didn't even understand what I did. Then I saw what I said got me in trouble. Guys who know me know I'm completely honest about the car stuff. I always tell ALL that I have done and will show timeslips to anyone, and run in front of anyone. And I just freaked a little being accused of being the opposite. Life goes on.

Nope don't know Hurricain Performance. I hang out with all the guys who work at Route 66 Performance (in pompano). Just found about the south florida buick club, I'm going to come out to tower shops at the end of the month.

Hey the 14th sounds good to me. That would be next friday. I was planning on going then with some friends anyway. What time do you guys get there? I don't know how it is at Moroso, never been there on time but at Gainesville raceway if I show up 30 minutes before the track is supposed to open, I can usually be the first or second guy in the gate and get in 5 runs while everyone else is going through tech.

About Orlando.. didn't I read somewhere that he really was full of it? (Orlando if this isn't true I'm sorry)

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Nope, Orlando is the real thing. Its some of the guys on here that have never seen him run that don't belive him. He is one of the nicest guys in the TR community.

http://www.hurricaneperformance.com/
One of the owners is a friend of mine, he used to have a 3000 mile WE4. He does really good work on the late model vettes and camaros.

I was at moroso 20 minutes before the gate opened and was at least 100 yards from the gates, because of all the people before me. I did get through tech in about 10 minutes, they now have 3 tech lines!!! I was able to get 2 runs in, in the first 30 minutes.

 

[Berman]

Originally posted by BLACK6PACK
Nope, Orlando is the real thing. Its some of the guys on here that have never seen him run that don't belive him. He is one of the nicest guys in the TR community.

http://www.hurricaneperformance.com/
One of the owners is a friend of mine, he used to have a 3000 mile WE4. He does really good work on the late model vettes and camaros.

I was at moroso 20 minutes before the gate opened and was at least 100 yards from the gates, because of all the people before me. I did get through tech in about 10 minutes, they now have 3 tech lines!!! I was able to get 2 runs in, in the first 30 minutes.

There's just so many people at Moroso.. At Gainesville Raceway, there aren't even different classes. Just run what'cha brung. Maybe 50 cars on test and tune night. I've been there on dead nights and within two horus made 15 passes then said hmm.. maybe I should not break my car.. and went home.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Yeah, it kinda sucks. You have to be there right at 6 to get more than 3 runs in. If you show up at 6:30 - 7pm you normally will only get 2 runs in between 7 and 11pm.

 

[TurboTR]

It's not so hard to believe a car will run fast at 40 psi boost

Berman Diag mode is not the right mode. I think the whole 0 deg timing issue is just a misunderstanding involving the scantool. No biggie. Car is running good otherwise.

TurboTR

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by TurboTR
It's not so hard to believe a car will run fast at 40 psi boost

Berman Diag mode is not the right mode. I think the whole 0 deg timing issue is just a misunderstanding involving the scantool. No biggie. Car is running good otherwise.

TurboTR

Agreed, the real trick is keeping the heads on.

 

[Steve Wood]

elastic head bolts, no need for a wastegate!

 

[BLACK6PACK]

OK, here is his secret.... sssshhhh, I don't want him to know I let the cat out of the bag.

You know those engine tie down straps. He has 2 of them that he wraps around the whole motor. That keeps the heads on and acts like a girdle.

 

[ULYCYC]

It's hard to tell in print if someone is just messing with you. As I was and I'm sure the rest are too. Good luck at the track

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Berman


I was doing it as a preventative measure - I didn't know it was blown. I just built a nice computer for my friend and he agreed to do timing chain, valve springs, and the gaskets for me in exhange. My guess is my friend would boost it to 25 and that likely blew it at some point. A stock headgasket from '86 isn't the strongest thing in the world.

Stock head gaskets weak?? Naaa, I ran mine for over 10 years before replacing them. I run 29 degrees of advance WOT , AND 25+# of boost on top of that (with good 114 gas of course). The only time I've blown headgaskets (twice) was my fault not watching the timing and boost levels closely enough. (Turned the wrong knob).

TurboBob makes a good point, you can make almost any table read anything you want on a scan tool. It's what really gets sent to, or read from the engine to PCM that counts. Unless YOU really know what's going on in there (and it doesn't sound like anyone that knows is willing to tell you), you can't really trust what you're seeing on the scan tool.

If you blew head gaskets with zero timing (even with 25+# of boost) there's something amiss here????

BTW, unless you've seen what Direct Scan can do, I wouldn't get too hyped on that GM tool you saw for so much money! It's still an ALDL based scan tool, and as such, still is only capturing data at one frame every 1.5 seconds

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by BM Computer Src
If I may suggest an idea as to why your seeing zero, if anyone has ever tried reading some thrasher chips with Directscan or any scantool, you may have also found them to show really weird readings. Im not suggesting it is a thrasher. I am suggesting that as TurboBob said, I have seen readings that are Impossibly off, yet that is what the tool is showing. The thrasher ones I speak of typically showed me over 50 degrees advance at WOT. This is just not possible. I see the same issue happening here, what you see (0) and what you get (probably 20 or so) are two different things. You may wish to post asking for anyone with a T6 Tuner to pull your chip image and see what is programmed into the main spark table.

Good luck solving the mystery though!

Bob

Good point Bob.
Another perfect point about what you see for timing on the scan tool means nothing unless YOU know why! I know how the Thrasher chips hide the real timing, and I'd bet a dollor to a donut, your chip may be similar, just the other direction.

 

[1BADDAM]

Gasoline takes approx .002-.003 sec. to burn in the combustion chamber, somewhat constant. Variable is motor RPM.
What makes all work at the right "time", you guessed it.
JMO but the chip has timing in it.

 

[Berman]

Originally posted by TurboDave


If you blew head gaskets with zero timing (even with 25+# of boost) there's something amiss here????

BTW, unless you've seen what Direct Scan can do, I wouldn't get too hyped on that GM tool you saw for so much money! It's still an ALDL based scan tool, and as such, still is only capturing data at one frame every 1.5 seconds

Eeew, one frame every 1.5 seconds? So I get less than 10 frames for a 1/4 mile pass? Nevermind, I ain't buying that. Garbage for tuning your car. I was just very impressed with how it looks compared to a scanmaster. I'd gladly pay $100 more for a scanmaster that looks nice and not like it was made in 1972.

Like I myself now think, and others think, it's not 0 degrees timing. No mystery why head gaskets blew at 25 psi on pump gas.

Well the car should be back together tonight or tommorrow (depends on how many hours my friend can spare tonight). For $50, in one day, my friend got the head surfaced (ensure a nice seal with the new headgaskets), new valve springs installed, and new valve seals. (at his friend's machine shop). Hmm.. probably tommorrow now that I think about it because I bought ARP head studs and I think you have to remove the AC to get the heads on with those.

So see you guys at the track next friday! I probably won't run sportsman (why idle in line for 20 mins to run when I can run in open comp or something and only wait 2 minutes. so I'll get my ass whopped every run, no biggie). Sometimes if they're not paying attention at Moroso, you can run in two classes. Or if you have some stick-on but removable letters, you can change your number and then run in another class, change it back and run sportsman Or if you're really cheap you can drive in, pay to watch, then get out your shoe polish, write your numbers, and go run sportsman (no.. I would never do that.) Last time they caught me jumping classes they kicked me out tho

 

[tminer]

Scanmaster is also 1.5 (ALDL based) unless you get a chip burned with fast update code which eliminates some of the data to allow a quicker repeat of the remaining data. It is still relatively slow even with fast update.

Turbolink is also ALDL and the new version will also handle the fast update stream. The new version will also have a lot of new features.

DirectScan is like 300 frames per second (OK, I forget the number) but it is hard wired to the ECM and I as I understand it there will not be any future development.

Tom

 

[striker_29]

Direct Scan is 18 frames per second, it should catch anything.

 

[OldGrayII]

Berman, dude theres nothing "Wrong" with Turbolink and its 1.5 frames per second, most folks on this borad, including myself, use Turbolink "rather" than Direct Scan(Direct Scan no longer has any support), and have gone "Well" into the 11's!!

Hey, the Mustang crowd does NOT even have a scan tool at all!!! They use thier ears as a Detionation detector!! And those are the Fast (11sec and quicker) guys!!

 

[Berman]

Originally posted by OldGrayII
Berman, dude theres nothing "Wrong" with Turbolink and its 1.5 frames per second, most folks on this borad, including myself, use Turbolink "rather" than Direct Scan(Direct Scan no longer has any support), and have gone "Well" into the 11's!!

Hey, the Mustang crowd does NOT even have a scan tool at all!!! They use thier ears as a Detionation detector!! And those are the Fast (11sec and quicker) guys!!

Autotap (which I use for the LS1) works for any OBDII car, which includes 96+ mustangs. So at least some of them have a scan tool.

Of course, when you relocate the oxygen sensor (as long tubes on a mustang or ls1 do) you basically throw it's accuracy out the window. So all you really can use autotap for is looking at your timing and knock retard.

Autotap is the bomb, though. I hope the windows version of the updated turbolink (that can go faster than 1.5 frames a second) works similarly, it's very easy to use.