You can type here any text you want

Valvoline VR-1 20W-50

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

t-topflyer

Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
746
Was in autozone the other day looking at oils and noticed they carry Valvoline 20W-50 VR-1 Racing Oil. They also have straight 50W. Both seem too thick but they do list ZDDP on the back. Is this oil safe and/or recommeded for these cars with stock engines and flat tappet cams? Why or why not? Did a general search on here and saw some are using it, but never found a straight answer as to whether you should or shouldn't and why.
 
Im not sure about those weights but vavoline sells that oil in 10/30 you may have to order it but I find it at napa.
 
My understanding is that the only the "Off Road" VR1 stuff has enough ZDDP. Not the regular ..has to say "off road" or something to that effect
 
20-50 kind of high to use, I myself use 4 qts. 10-30 and 1 qt. of 20-50, looking for about a blend of 15-40 or so, also be sure the bottles are gray, not blue.

Ron
 
Thought I would ask valvoline as well....here's what they said

"The oil will be 100% compatible with the vehicle, but we would suggest using a lighter weight. The Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is always produced in an SAE 10w30 viscosity and that is our recommendation for your vehicle."

How much ZDDP is the oil supposed to have for our cars? Chart from the link bad V6 says Zinc/Phosphorous 0.130/0.120 is that enough?
 
My Dad ran 20/50 Valvoline Racing since 87. In 96 the car had 210,000mi I blew the head gasket on prom night. :eek: When the motor was torn down for the first time by Mike Doyle our mechanic at the time he couldn't believe it, he said the engine looked brand new with the usual cylinder wear. ;) Oil was changes every 3,200mi. with a Fram filter.
 
Blue or gray bottle, doesn't matter, the level of ZDDP concentration is the same with any of the Valvoline VR-1 oils. The difference in the versions of the oil is that the Not Street Legal/Racing oil does not contain any detergents.
 
unless they have changed ingredients recently, it does matter whether it is a blue or gray bottle.

Ron
 
VR-1 20w/50

Iv'e been using the valvoline VR-1 20w/50 in all my cars with no problems. It's not too high priced either! An oil change just costs $26.00 with the WIX filter..

I have used a WIX filter and it helped out ALOT with drain-back and lifter noise at start up. The A/C delco filter is junk...

Scot W.
 
Iv'e been using the valvoline VR-1 20w/50 in all my cars with no problems. It's not too high priced either! An oil change just costs $26.00 with the WIX filter..

I have used a WIX filter and it helped out ALOT with drain-back and lifter noise at start up. The A/C delco filter is junk...

Scot W.

What wix filter # do you use?
 
Oil Recommendations

Thought I would ask valvoline as well....here's what they said

"The oil will be 100% compatible with the vehicle, but we would suggest using a lighter weight. The Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil is always produced in an SAE 10w30 viscosity and that is our recommendation for your vehicle."

How much ZDDP is the oil supposed to have for our cars? Chart from the link bad V6 says Zinc/Phosphorous 0.130/0.120 is that enough?

The viscosity of the oil is an engineering decision made when the engine was designed, and is based on factors such as intended RPM range, bearing width/design load/clearance, and climatic conditions.

The same engine put to widely different uses will be specified with two different oils. Merely as an example, a high RPM street engine which needs 10W-30 versus the same engine in a taxicab which spends a lot of time idling and low RPM, which would be designed to use 15W-40 or higher.

In a hydrodynamic bearing like the crankshaft and crankpin bearings, the heat developed in the bearing journals (other than that conducted through the block casting) is entirely due to oil shear. Oil that goes into a bearing at 160°F can exit the side clearance of a bearing at over 500°F when under a heavy load. This is because the bonds between the oil molecules are literally sheared apart as the loaded crank journal compresses the oil film in the hydrodynamic wedge.

There is an optimum viscosity which the engine was designed for which takes all factors into account. If an oil with too high viscosity is operated at high RPMs, the oil will degrade quickly in the bearings as it is heated near it's decomposition point. Racing engines do this every time they are run, but it does not matter, since the oil is dumped so frequently.

The oil for street engines needs to be more carefully chosen, since the oil change interval is so long, even at 3000 miles. It is this factor that makes choosing oil not trivial.

Here are some oil facts. True racing oils with low detergent are entirely unsuited to street engine use, since the acids which form in the oil will accumulate and attack internal engine parts.

Racing oil of high viscosity are not appropriate for street engines which are expected to be run at high RPMs. This is the reason Valvoline suggested that 20-50 is not so suitable for the GN engine especially with normal oil change intervals. I know that lots of folks will say “used it for xxxx and no problems. That’s EXACTLY like saying “smoked for 20 years and no health issues”. Can’t put it any simpler. The GM manual specifically calls for 10w30 and there are a lot of scientifically valid reasons. Go to shorter change intervals and accept shorter overall engine life and there are fewer reasons not to use 20w50.

Specifically, Valvoline has three grades of "Racing" oils, all with about 1200ppm of phosphorus in the form of ZDDP:

1) Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil has low detergent, and is NOT for street use. This is real racing oil.
2) Valvoline Synthetic Racing Oil also has insufficient detergents for street use. This too is real racing oil.
3) VR1 Racing oil is intended for street use and has adequate detergents. This is actually street oil with added ZDDP that cannot be legally added in oil and call it “street oil”-------it commands an extra price over “street oil” due to its “special name” and unique marketing strategy---------detergents compete with ZDDP and that’s why they are conspicuously absent from real racing oil

All three of the Valvoline "Racing" formulations at 1200ppm have adequate INITIAL ZDDP for high-performance applications. The valvoline VR-1 is an excellent oil for our cars IF you choose the CORRECT viscosity ie 10w30. But here is something to consider. A level of 1200ppm is proven adequate for high-performance flat-tappet engines, but due to depletion of the ZDDP molecule as it performs it's intended task, research shows that the concentration will drop as much as 25-40% within 1500 miles. This means that the ZDDP level will fall below safe levels at some point within the 3000 mile oil change interval. Extend the interval and the levels drop even further. They quickly reach levels below that of new SM oil in the .08 range.

Interesting enough a typical oil test will not show this depletion. Normal elemental analysis will show that the elements of zinc and phosphorous are still present but the multiple bonds that bind them into the ZDDP molecule are destroyed. Typical oil analysis is done using plasma coupled spectroscopy, but it merely shows the elements, not the molecules that they are part of. It is sort of like running a cow through a meat grinder. All the elements are still there. Everything that constituted a cow is on the plate but it’s not a cow anymore. Quantifying the actual oil ZDDP level requires advanced analysis techniques like FTIR. For more on this see this article: Molecular Spectroscopy - A Precision Lubrication Tool? This kind of testing can cost hundreds of dollars per sample, and you will need to do multiple tests to show the initial value and trend. I know: I've spent thousands of dollars on this kind of testing.


So while VR-1 is a good product I feel an even better choice is a good grade of quality SM street oil bought at a discount. The savings will almost pay for the ZDDPlus. Add half a bottle of ZDDPlus to bring it up to the 1200 range. After 1500-2000 or so miles add the rest of the bottle to refresh the ZDDP levels and you are at peak protection for another couple thousand miles. If that seems like too much trouble you can add it all to begin with and start with ZDDP in the .18 range which is not going to hurt anything. This way you have a wide variety of oil to choose from at competitive market prices. You can’t do this with any available oil that I know of.
 
So Quick Question and this may have been addressed already. Given my setup, I've been told that synthetic in not the way to go - as it always seems to create oil leaks, but to use a synthetic blend like Castrol 20w 50. I live in FL, so the cold is not really an issue here.

Since I use the Blend, can I switch to regular oil?

Give my hydraulic cam - do I need to add ZDDP?

And what would be the best oil and filter for that matter given my setup in my signature?

Sorry to hijack the post.
 
So Quick Question and this may have been addressed already. Given my setup, I've been told that synthetic in not the way to go - as it always seems to create oil leaks, but to use a synthetic blend like Castrol 20w 50. I live in FL, so the cold is not really an issue here.

Since I use the Blend, can I switch to regular oil?

Give my hydraulic cam - do I need to add ZDDP?

If you read Richard's last paragraph, after about 1500 miles the additive protection of the oil is about gone, and it does not matter if it is regular or synthetic. This affirms it is better to spend the $$$ on more frequent oil changes [or the ZDDP additive] than use synthetic oil.

His recommendation is also what we have told our customers with street driven turbo engines. :)

As he also states, race use dictates a much different routine, as well as different blends and viscosities that normal use. Also, most "normal use" in a turbo Buick V-6 is not is within the scope of factory recommendations.

Before the ZDDP product, we used GM EOS in ALL customer's cars. We now tell them to use ZDDP, as it is a much better product and very cheap protection for an expensive engine. A stock rebuild runs easily $5-6K with parts and labor, so proper oil protection is essential for performance and long life.

Do not buy into "my GM has 100K miles and does not need this stuff". If it was broken in 20 years ago, the oil had proper additives which it does NOT now contain.:frown:

I know every owner is going to do what he or she wants, but Richard's info above is one of the best ever stated on this subject.:D
 
I along with several freinds are using the VR-1 at this moment and have been for years, What we have basicly lived by was " As soon as the oil turns black or starts to, we change it" That may be 1,000mi or 2,500mi. I do a fresh oil change before our trip to BG every year, Maybe put on 1,000 miles round trip total and when I get home it's changed!

Richard how is this process we are doing? Also I would suppose adding ZDDP would make using VR-1 even better?

Thanks for your advice!

Scot W.
 
So Quick Question and this may have been addressed already. Given my setup, I've been told that synthetic in not the way to go - as it always seems to create oil leaks, but to use a synthetic blend like Castrol 20w 50. I live in FL, so the cold is not really an issue here.

Since I use the Blend, can I switch to regular oil?

Give my hydraulic cam - do I need to add ZDDP?

And what would be the best oil and filter for that matter given my setup in my signature?

Sorry to hijack the post.

here are my general comments on your questions--------early synthetics did create leaking problems-------the first automotive synthetics were diester based and caused problems with seal compatibility------by the late 70's this had been virtually eliminated with PAO/ester blending but the bad reputation has followed them ever since------sometimes this can still be a small problem since synthetics can sometimes exibit somewhat lower viscosity values in cold engines but it really shouldn't be a concern---------you do not have to worry about exchanging between syn and non syn since they are pretty much compatible in spite of what most folks think--------whats the definition of a "hydraulic cam"------to me there are solid and hydraulic either of which can be flat tappet or roller-------proper ZDDP levels for flat tappet cams is clearly in the 1200+ range--------it is not completely clear about roller types------so many things affect the issue-------i have seen engines that have had roller lifter and even roller rocker bearing failures due to extremely high spring pressures in high performance applications--------recently i have been doing tests of "new car oil"-------i have tested first oil change oil from several new corvettes that have had very high (exceeding .12%) ZDDP-------GM claims that they have Mobil 1 fill from the factory-------????? somebody feels that high ZDDP levels are at least necessary for initial break in at least------is it from an additive or special assembly lube?????-------there are now at least 6 major oil companies that market specialty oils with high levels of ZDDP-------The EPA might not feel its necessary but a lot of experienced engine builders seem to know different-------as for the question "whats the best oil"-------several months ago this question became the subject of a heated discussion in a thread-------Nick Micale made several comments concerning synthetic oil------it prompted me to do some research-------the more i researched the more research i needed to do-------i wanted to do a paper on the subject thinking it could be done in a couple weeks--------that paper became two papers and the second is still not done-------you can see the initial work on the ZDDPlus.com site under tech brief #10------it explains the differences in oil base stocks to a degree and extent you are not likely to find anywhere else-------whats in #11 ????------this much i will say at this point-----months of testing and research has led me to a change of opinion -------turns out Nick was right--at least about the turbo regal------i think a strong case can be made that non synthetic oil is preferable to synthetic in the GN-----it has a lot to do with adhesion and oil polarity among other things-------every engine has an oiling weak point------the best choice of oil for an engine is an oil that has ideal characteristics for that particular engines weak point-------the 109 block in particular has a glaring weak point-----the cam lifter interface-------that's exactly why the API selected it for sequence IIIE oil tests for cam/lifter wear--------when you completely understand the job oil has to perform in each wear point of an engine it is clear that there is no perfect oil for every engine-------tech brief # 11 covers these questions and much more-----keep an eye out it should be on the site within the next couple weeks-------its a real landmark paper and all but experienced tribologists would find it very informative...............RC
 
I along with several freinds are using the VR-1 at this moment and have been for years, What we have basicly lived by was " As soon as the oil turns black or starts to, we change it" That may be 1,000mi or 2,500mi. I do a fresh oil change before our trip to BG every year, Maybe put on 1,000 miles round trip total and when I get home it's changed!

Richard how is this process we are doing? Also I would suppose adding ZDDP would make using VR-1 even better?

Thanks for your advice!

Scot W.

if you are changing the oil as frequently as you say there is really no need to add ZDDP------unless you are running it really hard at the strip and/or have a really strong buildup------in which case there is a lot of evidence that levels in the .18 ppm range is not a bad idea--------there is also evidence that long term levels much higher than .20 can have adverse affects-------tech brief #7 tells you exactly how to calculate a perfect balance-------i do it in my cars cause i'm a fanatic............RC
 
if you are changing the oil as frequently as you say there is really no need to add ZDDP------unless you are running it really hard at the strip and/or have a really strong buildup------in which case there is a lot of evidence that levels in the .18 ppm range is not a bad idea--------there is also evidence that long term levels much higher than .20 can have adverse affects-------tech brief #7 tells you exactly how to calculate a perfect balance-------i do it in my cars cause i'm a fanatic............RC
Thank You Rich! I'm glad to know i'm doing the right thing. $26.00 oil changes is cheap insurance! :) The car isn't ran hard at the strip on vacation or at home, The oil change intervals is Just a rule of thumb that I started to live by.

Richard thanks for your input, Your information & research is always top notch!


Scot W.
 
Back
Top