What heads to buy... and how soon can I have them ?

[Reggie West]

The irons will work fine and cost the least amount of money.

That way you can save up for the big project.

If they take that long to get back. Go buy another set of ported irons.

 

[bison]

Only problem with the irons is... I can't put them on a 14 bolt block... which may be something I'd be interested in buying over the winter.

Decisions decisions...

Plenty of guys have run them on 14 bolt blocks. I dont see why you couldnt

 

[yullose]

Plenty of guys have run them on 14 bolt blocks. I dont see why you couldnt

Wouldn't they defeat the purpose of running a 14 bolt block and the added benefit of the add'l studs ?

My biggest gripe with the 109 block is the lack of fasteners around the cylinders.

I'm just trying to think ahead... and don't want to buy two sets of heads if I don't need to... By the same token, if I put the cheaper irons on it... I can upgrade a few other things at the same time... and not feel like I dumped a ton of money into a little pair of V6 heads.

My original $1500 budget wasn't set at that level due to lack of money... It was set at $1500 because I really didn't WANT to spend more than that.
I could easily swing a set of TA race heads and rocker setup... but convincing myself to do so is the biggest problem.

Making the adjustment from Chevys to Buicks is still a difficult one...

Example...
About a year ago I picked up a pair of fully race ported Dart 345 aluminum heads and race ported Dart intake for $1200. The heads included roller springs, Ti retainers, 10 degree locks, rocker studs, guideplates, stud girdles, etc... just back from the machine shop and ready to bolt on.
These heads were put on a 565 BBC that probably hasn't got more than a total of 5-6 grand invested in it... I paid $400 for the Bowtie block... already clearenced for the stroker crank and with a 4.600 bore size.


Convincing myself to cough up twice the money for half the cylinder head and 2/3 of the rockers I'm use to buying.... well... it just ain't an easy pill to swallow.

 

[ttaowner]

Wouldn't they defeat the purpose of running a 14 bolt block and the added benefit of the add'l studs ?

My biggest gripe with the 109 block is the lack of fasteners around the cylinders.

I'm just trying to think ahead... and don't want to buy two sets of heads if I don't need to... By the same token, if I put the cheaper irons on it... I can upgrade a few other things at the same time... and not feel like I dumped a ton of money into a little pair of V6 heads.

My original $1500 budget wasn't set at that level due to lack of money... It was set at $1500 because I really didn't WANT to spend more than that.
I could easily swing a set of TA race heads and rocker setup... but convincing myself to do so is the biggest problem.

Making the adjustment from Chevys to Buicks is still a difficult one...

Example...
About a year ago I picked up a pair of fully race ported Dart 345 aluminum heads and race ported Dart intake for $1200. The heads included roller springs, Ti retainers, 10 degree locks, rocker studs, guideplates, stud girdles, etc... just back from the machine shop and ready to bolt on.
These heads were put on a 565 BBC that probably hasn't got more than a total of 5-6 grand invested in it... I paid $400 for the Bowtie block... already clearenced for the stroker crank and with a 4.600 bore size.


Convincing myself to cough up twice the money for half the cylinder head and 2/3 of the rockers I'm use to buying.... well... it just ain't an easy pill to swallow.

i guess you could always put a sbc under the hood of your gn

 

[yullose]

i guess you could always put a sbc under the hood of your gn

Trust me when I say that has crossed my mind.

There's just something "cool" about getting it done with the turbo'd Buick V6... and still being able to drive it to the local cruise nights on pump gas.

In my humble opinion, once the V6 comes out of a GN to be replaced by a V8 it's no longer a GN.
The Turbo V6 is what MAKES it a GN... and sets it aside from all others.

It would be the same as putting a Ford 460 into a Camaro...

 

[ttaowner]

i agree .i was just messing with you! i admire your pic it looks like my we4 with prostars on it

 

[Slow91z]

Champion has been improving their head for years...I wouldn't be scared of the newer versions.

As someone else said save your money and keep the stock intake, since it's already ported there's no reason to get rid of it for your goals.

 

[jasjamz]

X3 Keep your intake. Nobody needs a Big Stuff or XFI. He needs to work within his buget. Use what you have dude. Ported Irons have been there. Good Luck.

 

[bison]

Wouldn't they defeat the purpose of running a 14 bolt block and the added benefit of the add'l studs ?

My biggest gripe with the 109 block is the lack of fasteners around the cylinders.

The quickest and fastest stock block guys are not limited by the lack of fasteners. Their limited by the block webbing. Your cheapest easiest route is to buy iron heads and then sell them after you get your 14 bolt block. You will recoup at least 75% of what you spent when you sell the heads. So maybe a $300 loss. Which is nothing.

 

[yullose]

I just ordered a pair of TA SI's from Tim at TA Performance.

Apparently they come with the rocker stands... and I can use my roller rockers I already own.

I also got another set of head studs, hyd roller spring upgrade and a pair of Cometics on the way.

Total came to a little over $2100 for everything.

Tim said I should have them the end of next week, beginning of the following week at the latest.

I ordered the TA's because they seem to have the thickest/heaviest castings... and I can put them on a 14 bolt block in the future.

I would have ordered the SE/race heads... but just couldn't justify buying a $900 valvetrain.

 

[yullose]

Here's the head specs and the cam I'm using...

 

[Turbo1dr]

You need to call Steve at Turbo Buick Heads for GNX, Grand Nationals, T-Types, and more...!!!!!

Just put a set on my gnX and man do they FLOW!!!!

check out his web site!!!!

What do they flow? Any flow charts?

 

[murphster]

What are you doing for fuel supply at the rails? I'd recommend going to an external regulator setup, especially with champion fuel rails. You could dip into the 9s without one, but to go deep into the 9s it seems like a lot of people run into problems leaning out #1 with an inline regulator.

I'm upgrading my champion rail to an external regulator and also dual feeding the rails to try and eliminate the problem after I leaned out #1. I'm also looking at getting an EGT on #1 or a multiple EGT setup so I can track it in the future. Seems like a lot of people run into this issue once they get to those power levels.

I've seen some people have no issues with single feeding the champion rail with an external regulator setup, but they also have a huge external pump and huge fuel lines. I'm running an intake double pumper.

 

[yullose]

That's what I intend to do...

I will be replacing the entire fuel system actually, with a cell and A1000 pump.

Is there a different DS fuel rail available to replace the integral regulator style ?

I like the idea of dual feeding them to keep them balanced.

FWIW, I will definitely be buying the new Champion Intake... Selling the old iron heads and ported stock intake means no add'l expense out of my pocket.

 

[jdsgnx]

What do they flow? Any flow charts?

I don't have any numbers or flow charts.

I have had champion on a few cars I've worked on and raced.

I can tell you at 20 lbs of boost this thing is MOVING!!!!

check out the site and give Steve a call (GREAT GUY!!) www.turbobuickheads.com

thanks JD

 

[Reggie West]

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by going to a different intake but its your money.

 

[yullose]

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by going to a different intake but its your money.

Yeah, I've been doing alot of reading today and pretty much came to the same conclusion.
I think the money will be put toward fuel system upgrades instead.

 

[JayC]

And using a stock ECM with a MAFpro set up is not such a hot idea in my humble opinion. I dont think a MAF can accurately measure the amount of air a 70 GTQ will throw out.

Good thing the MAFPro doesnt use a MAF then, huh.

 

[yullose]

Good thing the MAFPro doesnt use a MAF then, huh.

And to go a step further... my Turbo Tweak chip uses wideband tracking to adjust A/F.
I also have EGT's to look at in the Powerlogger.

Once I go back together with it, I will creep up on the tune. No need to thrash it to pieces first time out.

 

[Ed Valvo]

Do the heads you bought have EGR??