WOT correction OFF with Alky?

[Reggie West]

So an individual port nitrous plate would not work well? The big trick IMHO will be getting the methanol to atomize properly going into each port. I do think this type of delivery system will require less methanol to produce the same power. The b2b FAST has the nitrous tables in it so it can be tuned using that. It may take some rigging to use Razors pump and electronics to coexist with the FAST unit.

 

[Alky V6]

Never hurts to have too much knowledge.

 

[Alky V6]

So an individual port nitrous plate would not work well? The big trick IMHO will be getting the methanol to atomize properly going into each port. I do think this type of delivery system will require less methanol to produce the same power. The b2b FAST has the nitrous tables in it so it can be tuned using that. It may take some rigging to use Razors pump and electronics to coexist with the FAST unit.

Nitrous plates have their problems. Ever notice that most nitrous people will switch to port injection once a certain nitrous hp level is reached? They're trying to assure equal distribution, which kinda shows that they can't rely on the plate systems to do that for them. Plus, the airflow through a nitrous plate is generally straight through the plate. From what you fellas are suggesting, and where the throttle body is mounted, I would imagine there would be quite a bit of crossflow still occurring through the plate which will result in the same sort of problem you guys are trying to fight now.

 

[Alky V6]

This is what you fellas need. A nozzle pointing directly into each intake runner.
Notice the extravagant design of the plate I use to equalize airflow to the cylinders.
This view is looking through the throttlebody. You can see the throttle blade at the upper edge of the picture (blurry).

 

[Pronto]

Wouldn't it be easier to have it plumbed on the outside near each injector bung?

 

[Alky V6]

Wouldn't it be easier to have it plumbed on the outside near each injector bung?

To each their own design.
If you look carefully at the pic I posted, you will notice that the nozzles I'm using are vented. This helps with atomization a little. Mounting a vented nozzle where the vents are outside the intake manifold on a boosted application wouldn't work very well. In fact, might cause a fire. Yikes!

 

[bison]

Lets see some port injected pics from others. If there are any.

 

[Alky V6]

One interesting thing about the nozzles compared to the e-injectors. When the nozzles come on and the e-injectors are cut back, the engine jumps in performance. It really likes the nozzles. Which is interesting, because you'd think the nozzles would have a harder time atomizing the fuel than the e-injectors. None the less, the engine does perk up a noticeable amount when those nozzles come on. To the point that I struggle to figure out a way to have the nozzles in play before the car leaves the line.

 

[TurboBuRick]

This is what you fellas need. A nozzle pointing directly into each intake runner.
Notice the extravagant design of the plate I use to equalize airflow to the cylinders.
This view is looking through the throttlebody. You can see the throttle blade at the upper edge of the picture.

Nice set up. You better patten that plate. LOL!

 

[kidglok]

would it be possible to drill 6 nozzles on the intake runners?

woops spoke to soon!

 

[Alky V6]

would it be possible to drill 6 nozzles on the intake runners?

If there's room, anything is possible.

 

[TurboDave]

Just a quick question a bit off topic, and I hope I won't offend anyone. I'm just trying to better understand how the display that pacecarta has shown is setup:

Is the "timeline" along the bottom of the display graduated in seconds???

The reason I ask is, it appears that the throttle goes full WOT at the 13 second point in the log. However, the MAP doesn't hit full value until about the 17.5 second point? Can that be so? it took over 4.5 seconds to hit full boost?? If so, is this a programmed thing, maybe to control traction or something?

TIA.

 

[Alky V6]

Just a quick question a bit off topic, and I hope I won't offend anyone. I'm just trying to better understand how the display that pacecarta has shown is setup:

Is the "timeline" along the bottom of the display graduated in seconds???

The reason I ask is, it appears that the throttle goes full WOT at the 13 second point in the log. However, the MAP doesn't hit full value until about the 17.5 second point? Can that be so? it took over 4.5 seconds to hit full boost?? If so, is this a programmed thing, maybe to control traction or something?

TIA.

If the O2 correction and a/f ratio wasn't cycling so bad, that time could very well be cut down. How much? I really can't say. I can say for sure, the time would be cut down. That I know from experience.

 

[pacecarta]

spool was horrendous , that run i had the header bolts loosen up
and it slipped the tires after it came out

agree theres more in the first 330ft should be 1.38 60s and 6.3s 1/8th

 

[bison]

Just a quick question a bit off topic, and I hope I won't offend anyone. I'm just trying to better understand how the display that pacecarta has shown is setup:

Is the "timeline" along the bottom of the display graduated in seconds???

The reason I ask is, it appears that the throttle goes full WOT at the 13 second point in the log. However, the MAP doesn't hit full value until about the 17.5 second point? Can that be so? it took over 4.5 seconds to hit full boost?? If so, is this a programmed thing, maybe to control traction or something?

TIA.

It's not uncommon to see a variance in boost running a wastegate setup with no added external source of pressure. I usually crank them down so their is a slight spike on ramp in if the traction is there. They move out a lot better and the engine will take that spike with no problem in 1st. The area where you get into trouble is in 3rd where the load may increases boost slightly and you are running a lot of timing. That point after you shift into 3rd and the engine speed isn't climbing for a few seconds while the converter is coupling is putting a lot of heat in the cylinder.

 

[pacecarta]

i am on co2 6psi spring with msbc-1 but the gate needs a change , its an old HKS40 and it leaks horrible on the gate valve

and im running manifold mode which many dont recommend , wastegate mode holds much more accuratebut you have to punch in a boost number figuring the spring and see where it goes ( to get 24psi with 15psi spring needs 8 dialed into boost controller ..maybe )

 

[pacecarta]

and at 17 seconds where it started to dive rich on the AF i was still on the brake waiting for some boost to come up which seemed like forever (rt was 1.5 ugh)
with all the bolts tight .. spools from dead to launch (8psi) before the second amber bulbs , once i let go of the brake it takes .7 seconds from 8 to 25

oh and i was using one of bobs two steps to limit the launch rpm at 3600

 

[TurboBob]

and at 17 seconds where it started to dive rich on the AF i was still on the brake waiting for some boost to come up which seemed like forever (rt was 1.5 ugh)
with all the bolts tight .. spools from dead to launch (8psi) before the second amber bulbs , once i let go of the brake it takes .7 seconds from 8 to 25

oh and i was using one of bobs two steps to limit the launch rpm at 3600

you want to be sure the afr correction is off when on the 2-step.....

Bob

 

[Mr.Spool]

bison what kind of power and et are you seeing these problems?does the afr start go lean?or completely without warning.im just trying to understand the trouble area as im currently in the mid 10 sec range.

 

[pacecarta]

you wont see a thing change either in a/f or show in correction as the opening post stated , he is incorrect in his explanation but # 1 is going leaner than the rest as the alky is making the rears richer , be assured it is occuring .

it doesnt go lean on the A/F even if correction is off or on , what you see as the a/f is a combined signal of all the cylinders , the a/f will be what you either programmed to run or set the ve table to follow . , so where the rears get richer than the A/f the #1 is actually running leaner than the a/f you see ..and without the full assist of alky it has to make due with your tune almost on 93 alone
you need to run richer a/f ( with more fuel not alky) and that will keep #1 happy on fuel supply while the others have to be little richer from the alky , but you also have to treat #1 as if it has 93 only and dont get aggressive on the tune

if you have ability to add fuel to #1 (and little to #2 ) the af would be better balanced , but youll still have the octane issue as the rear get the majority of the alky so youll have to drop the timing back in the forward cylinders , how much .. thats were the crossing your fingers helps unless you have an egt on all cylinders or at least an egt to compare #1 to #6

run a safer timing and run a richer mix , watch the inlet temps and trim back the alky to keep them up while being on the watch for any sign of knock to lift but even then you may not even get a single chance at a do over

murphster was with me at the track the week before that run and when i went 133.9 he went 134 on even less timing
heres the details
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/fastest-pump-gas-alky-car.201563/page-17