Your Dream 109 Bullet proof motor?

[imjoesnuffy]

Well if we are going to day dream...

I would start by looking for the best core possible. Find/buy 20 or so 109 blocks, strip them all down, hot tank, magnaflux, and weigh them. Start with the heaviest block you can find. Keep the 4 or 5 heaviest and sell the rest. After the machine work and extreme anal retentive blue printing of the block, I would have everything cryo-treated. I would think the build should center around high RPMs, high boost and relatively low CR7.5-8 (timing is adjustable, CR isnt) A rotating assembly balanced to the thousanths. Solid roller cam obviously, a valvetrain that will live above 8000 rpms, a convertor and transmission capable of living at that speed with minimal parasitic loss, heads that will move enough air and a light weight car, anything that can be coated should be.

That's just to get it started.

 

[Mike E]

Where are you getting this price of $25k for a stage block motor? I've got the best parts available and have just a little over your 109 price into it. And it could have been done a lot cheaper. The real difference is the block. A used 109 and a girdle installed would be about $900. If you wait, you can find a used stage block for under $2k.

 

[bison]

Because I would rather spend 15k than 25k... I just figure its been done. With the right guidance, I'm sure I can do it too! I've have blown a motor in the past amd it was just bad luck. Someone else's mistake! Lesson learned. I only want to gamble with 15k. If I woukd have done a stage 2 project. It would cost me significantly more. I figure push it hard. Check motor at end of every season... save what u can replace the rest. I just finished my 1st stroker and building an even better back up. So I figure total expense 2 motors 30k rather than 1 motor @ 25k. And I have 2 chances to play. Both identical motors except 1 is wide journal other isn't.

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If worried about how much you will spend don't go there.


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[robzombie]

For a race only block how come I've never heard anyone mention block filler to stiffen the casting.

It has been done for years in the racing community and yet no one has mentioned that as a possible solution.

I've done it with weak ass [thin wall] 455 blocks with great success. What makes the thin casting POS 109 any different??

Is there a reason it hasn't been done on these blocks??

Just asking because maybe it's been tried and hasn't worked on these blocks.


RZ

 

[Phoneguy]

The entire top end of the block is lacking in metal. The webbing in the lifter valley is where the block tends to crack. More than one of these has split in two.

Bryan

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Where are you getting this price of $25k for a stage block motor? I've got the best parts available and have just a little over your 109 price into it. And it could have been done a lot cheaper. The real difference is the block. A used 109 and a girdle installed would be about $900. If you wait, you can find a used stage block for under $2k.

What do u consider the best parts available? Wide journal crank? What tuoe of rods amd pistons?

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[SAMBALLS1]

If worried about how much you will spend don't go there.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

I'm not worried about the $$$. I'm worried about getting over charged. ..lol I don't mind spending 20k on a build if I know exactly what I'm getting... its when builders don't disclose that worries me...

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[Mike E]

Bryant billet wide journal crank. Crower billet on-center rods. Ross pistons. All in an on-center block with a Danny bee belt drive.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

I will be starting a build thread pretty soon. Keep an eye out. 8sec 109 here we come. . . I cant wait to see how far I can push it. I can't wait to hear all the "it can't be done!"

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[coach]

I gotta say I admire your persistence, but if you just pile 20k $1 dollar bills up on top of a bed of dynamite...that would be less painful to watch...
Your forgetting...if that block cracks at 150mph you could be killed from oiling down the track. Your obsession to do the "undo able" doesn't mean you'll be ok in the end. Be safe...

Good luck.


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[forcefed3.8's]

For a race only block how come I've never heard anyone mention block filler to stiffen the casting.

It has been done for years in the racing community and yet no one has mentioned that as a possible solution.

I've done it with weak ass [thin wall] 455 blocks with great success. What makes the thin casting POS 109 any different??

Is there a reason it hasn't been done on these blocks??

Just asking because maybe it's been tried and hasn't worked on these blocks.


RZ

Its been done numerous times.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

That can happen in any situation. At those hp levels things get ugly quick FAST!. The most I can do is practice safety. Engine diaper. If its about safety a concern my car is prepped. 8.5 cert cage. Guys I'm not an amateur. I've been around a long ass time. I decided to do the 109 because I want to see if I can do it. I could have done a lsx turbo build if I wanted too. Thats just not my deal. For me its about setting a next to an impossible goal and achieving it. Im building 2 almost identical strokers to help me achieve it. My goal is under a year. I will push this little 109 8.99 or faster with a 1 years time. 1 blows up. . . I keep going...these cars have been my pride and joy for a long time. . . Have owned more than most normal people. This is my 16th. I always make a project of them amd move on. But I always come back.
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[Mike E]

For a race only block how come I've never heard anyone mention block filler to stiffen the casting.

It has been done for years in the racing community and yet no one has mentioned that as a possible solution.

I've done it with weak ass [thin wall] 455 blocks with great success. What makes the thin casting POS 109 any different??

Is there a reason it hasn't been done on these blocks??

Just asking because maybe it's been tried and hasn't worked on these blocks.


RZ

Hard block only helps stabilize the cylinder walls. It does nothing for the main webs (where stock blocks break) because there isn't any coolant there.

 

[Phoneguy]

8.99 has been done, 8.7x has been done...you said 8.30, big difference with this block.
I do appreciate someone willing to spend the money to prove a point though. Good luck.

Bryan

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Guys I set a crazy 1 year goal to do 8.99. I guarantee it will go faster. But that will take me a bit more time and $$$. Im close to 60k or more into this little goal and project. Take it easy on me. I dont see too many crazy ass people trying it. Im just barely being vocal because my motors have become available. I planned this little ordeal. I threw crazy cash @ this little project just to see if I can do it on a 109.

I've got a couple of goals lined up. My 1st is 8.99 in a full weight car a/c. Once I get there I'm doing some serious weight reduction and shoot for the 8.30's probably be full out race car by that time.

Just like my alias. Gotta have balls to try it.

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[Mike E]

Guys I set a crazy 1 year goal to do 8.99. I guarantee it will go faster. But that will take me a bit more time and $$$. Im close to 60k or more into this little goal and project. Take it easy on me. I dont see too many crazy ass people trying it. Im just barely being vocal because my motors have become available. I planned this little ordeal. I threw crazy cash @ this little project just to see if I can do it on a 109.

I've got a couple of goals lined up. My 1st is 8.99 in a full weight car a/c. Once I get there I'm doing some serious weight reduction and shoot for the 8.30's probably be full out race car by that time.

Just like my alias. Gotta have balls to try it.

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I think your going to find that hp to go an 8.99 is the easy part of the equation. Getting the car to work is going to be harder. It can be done with less than 1000 flywheel hp, but everything behind the motor has to work together.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Yea. I know. I will get it done!

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[bison]

I'm not worried about the $$$. I'm worried about getting over charged. ..lol I don't mind spending 20k on a build if I know exactly what I'm getting... its when builders don't disclose that worries me...

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

The fastest of the fast have spent wayyyyyyuy more over the years on their r&d than 20,30, or even 40k. Some probably have the equivalent of 100k in if you factor the time in. Having an engine that will have the potential to deliver the times is one thing. Actually getting one in a chassis that works is the hard part. There's a lot less to the engine than there is to getting the car to go down the quarter mile repeatedly and put up the numbers.


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[SAMBALLS1]

The fastest of the fast have spent wayyyyyyuy more over the years on their r&d than 20,30, or even 40k. Some probably have the equivalent of 100k in if you factor the time in. Having an engine that will have the potential to deliver the times is one thing. Actually getting one in a chassis that works is the hard part. There's a lot less to the engine than there is to getting the car to go down the quarter mile repeatedly and put up the numbers.

Have faith my friend..lol.. It can be done... takes big balls though..lol... and some mistakes along the way... the mistakes I've already made.. my turn this time..

 

[TurboTGuy]

Your first post posed this question:

What do think it would cost u to build a bullet proof solid 8.30-8.50' motor. From intake to floorpan?
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By your own admission, you say it can't be done:

That can happen in any situation. At those hp levels things get ugly quick FAST!. The most I can do is practice safety. Engine diaper. If its about safety a concern my car is prepped. 8.5 cert cage. Guys I'm not an amateur. I've been around a long ass time. I decided to do the 109 because I want to see if I can do it. I could have done a lsx turbo build if I wanted too. Thats just not my deal. For me its about setting a next to an impossible goal and achieving it. Im building 2 almost identical strokers to help me achieve it. My goal is under a year. I will push this little 109 8.99 or faster with a 1 years time. 1 blows up. . . I keep going...these cars have been my pride and joy for a long time. . . Have owned more than most normal people. This is my 16th. I always make a project of them amd move on. But I always come back.
Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

That being said in your own words mind you, why do you keep insisting CAN be done?

A 109 that goes 8's?

Yep it can be done. Already has been done.

But, even you doubt that your self imposed goal of a "bullet proof solid 8.30-8.50' motor" can really be done. You are building a second engine in case the first one fails.

That very thing negates all the confidence and bravado you have thus far expressed.

I really want to see you do it, so keep us updated.

Good luck to, sir.