ZDDP plus and VR-1

[turbo nasty]

Man oh Man.
Glens a nice guy and does great at making parts for the comunity and such.
Though I didnt catch the radio show thing.
Maybe its ignorance and he didnt know that Mr. Clark was the "Behind the scenes guy" and was going after Dennis or someone else who is a distributor? IDK

Mr. Clark is a outstanding individual and anyone who has been around him for any length of time knows that his integrity and honesty are not questionable and he is as genuine as they get.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I've posted a VIRGIN Oil Analysis chart from VR-1 20w-50 oil and it was 1170ppm Z and 850ppm PH respectively. Going off of that and what ZDDP Plus has on their website, it appears as if you could be adding too much Z and PH to your engine oil with this combo.

ZDDP Plus recommends adding the whole 4 oz bottle, at 1700ppm Z and 1200ppm PH, to the newer SM oils since those levels are around 800ppm Z and 600ppm PH. The whole bottle seems like overkill even with SM oils IMO.

Potentially save some $$ by running the 5 quart jugs of whatever SM oil from Walmart for $14 and add the ZDDP Plus at $14 to that. Or 5 quarts of Brad Penn at $4.75 seem pretty practical too.

 

[TurboBuRick]

I've posted a VIRGIN Oil Analysis chart from VR-1 20w-50 oil and it was 1170ppm Z and 850ppm PH respectively. Going off of that and what ZDDP Plus has on their website, it appears as if you could be adding too much Z and PH to your engine oil with this combo.

ZDDP Plus recommends adding the whole 4 oz bottle, at 1700ppm Z and 1200ppm PH, to the newer SM oils since those levels are around 800ppm Z and 600ppm PH. The whole bottle seems like overkill even with SM oils IMO.

Potentially save some $$ by running the 5 quart jugs of whatever SM oil from Walmart for $14 and add the ZDDP Plus at $14 to that. Or 5 quarts of Brad Penn at $4.75 seem pretty practical too.

I think thast's the point Glen was trying to make.

 

[GNRick]

So if SM VR-1 still has enough ZDDP, what happened to it to make it go from SG to SM? Is there anything else we should be concerned with, in addition to ZDDP concentration? And, if ZDDP drops off after the first 1000 miles, should we be adding ZDDPlus after the first 1000 miles?

 

[Phoff]

I've dealt with Glen and I know him. I have never had a problem with him.

Thats why I still cant believe what he said.

He started off by saying all the cam problems are because of improper valve springs??? Crazy.

He quoted directly from Richard Clarks Tech briefs on the internet and said the information was incorrect and mis-leading.

He wasnt searching for words, he had notes and new exactly what he was saying.

I wish he would come in here and straighten this out. I am sure he has read this thread.

Pete

 

[azbob]

I too have been a customer of Glens and he has been helpful in identifying specific NOS items for my use. PRIOR to joining the forum, I spent alot of time reading the archives for historical information and specifics to help me understand our cars. I personnaly embraced the character and intellegence of Mr. Clark long before he posted the ZDDP data and technical basis for his recommendations for our oil use. The transparency of his information as presented is amazing to say in the least. If we are to keep the forum open to dialogue and discussion, we must periodically educate the internet experts that thrive in the background and freely post their opinions.

 

[salvageV6]

I don't use any additives with Valvoline VR1 oil.

Nor do I use any with Mobil 1 synth. 15-50.

And I have some ZDDP on the shelf thanks to Dennis K. and Mr. Clark both fine people in our community.

I prefer to look back at Vendors to see how they weather things, you know like PTE51's (melting fins), sticky wastegate pucks (ATR), BUDGET ROLLER CAMS (a few vendors), cracked aluminum heads, and I'm sure the list goes on.

There's always some misinformation from vendors that hopefully can get cleared up in tech. :smile:

You can't clear up engine damage and crappy parts quite as easily.

Oil isn't that hard to research, many companies post the data and of course you can actually have it tested if you need to.

Maybe the community would be far better served taking up a collection and having a ton of major oils tested in their virgin state. :smile:

 

[TurboDave]

Maybe the community would be far better served taking up a collection and having a ton of major oils tested in their virgin state. :smile:

Shouldn't have to. I'm pretty sure if you ask Richard, he already has that data at hand.

 

[BASS]

Ok, so whats the final verdict of how much ZDDP to add when using the VR-1 (street legal) oil in a street car driven 3,000 miles between oil changes?

My car uses exactly 5.5 quarts, so do I add 1/2 of the 4 oz. bottle? Then, after 1,000 miles, do I add the rest of the ZDDP or dont bother until the next oil change?

 

[williamsGN]

VR & 1/2 bottle.. good till next change

 

[salvageV6]

Dave I'd prefer he work on bumper fillers.

Good luck with getting him to list all the oils that don't need any additives.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I think thast's the point Glen was trying to make.

I didn't hear the interview but ZDDP Plus is hardly "Snake oil" if that's what Glen said to make his point. It's still a practical additive oil to use during a break in, that's for sure. And after seeing the actual data from BlackStone, VR-1 is not at the levels of Z and PH that Buick required in 1987, SF oil 1988 end date and these levels were not set like todays at 800/600, so you need something to add into the SM/SN oil to get these levels higher, how much is the grey area IMO.

What complicates this debate is the newer oils are better in other ways, Ester %, sludge build up, detergents etc, so Z and PH are not the only elements that matter which is why you can argue you don't need as much of it in your oil anymore, regardless of your catalytic converter.

Sounds like A2000Rich is actually Richard Clark, cool he's a GN owner and his post seems very on point from someone who some would argue is trying to sell us something. 2 oz of ZDDP Plus with VR-1 seems like a practical use of $ and wear protection, the whole bottle and Walmart SN oil is also an option.

 

[Boost231]

so i get it now, VR1 and 1/2 bottle ZDDP.

So does this still hold true if you are running 5 quarts vs 7.5 quarts of VR1?

 

[Bruce Urie]

Mr. Clark, I sure do admire you. You are such a positive asset to our hobby that I never want anything to happen to you.....what healthy foods do you like best as I'll send a box of it every month:biggrin:!

You are like the NO. 1 Formula One driver in the world....the best in his field.

I sure hope I have the opportunity just to shake your hand someday. That's all I would like to do.....well, maybe an autograph would make me happy, too.:tongue:

Thank you for such an intellectual insight on the ZDDP and oil subject. You make it so anyone can understand. Especially me.

You, Sir, are one of a kind. I'm glad you're here on this earth. No kidding. And such a nice guy to boot!

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[TurboBuRick]

Talked to Glen today on the phone. He feels terrible about this whole miss understanding. He never aimed anything at zddplus or Mr.Clark. It was zdp itself he was trying to educate on. We miss interpreted what he was saying.

This from Richards Clarks site zddplus.com. It's almost word for word what Glen said about zdp. Again nothing aimed at RC's product zddplus.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

Read the article I hate when people pick and choose sentences to validate their opinion, you can change alot of things around by picking and choosing read the link below. And why do so many company's either jump on Richards band wagon or copy his product? You know why? They were having un explained flat tappet failures and were blaming it on everything from improper break in to too high of spring pressure. And a concerned person like Richard takes it upon himself and figures out the reason and works on bringing something to the market. I met Richard a few times. But the thing that amazed me the most is how proud to share his knowledge on these cars because he likes them. And so anal on testing I seen him test a few pumps for flow and psi at a given voltage. And make a graph to show a comparison. I don't think that for a minute he is trying to make a buck off us but to share in his passion for these cars with us. So that we could enjoy our cars for years to come.

If you don't know about ZDDP Plus follow the link.

Steve

ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP Additive for Classic Cars - Agricultural Equipment & More

 

[NEVER ENOUGH]

you mean there are misunderstandings on internet forums???... No!

 

[TurboBuRick]

Read the article I hate when people pick and choose sentences to validate their opinion, you can change alot of things around by picking and choosing read the link below. And why do so many company's either jump on Richards band wagon or copy his product? You know why? They were having un explained flat tappet failures and were blaming it on everything from improper break in to too high of spring pressure. And a concerned person like Richard takes it upon himself and figures out the reason and works on bringing something to the market. I met Richard a few times. But the thing that amazed me the most is how proud to share his knowledge on these cars because he likes them. And so anal on testing I seen him test a few pumps for flow and psi at a given voltage. And make a graph to show a comparison. I don't think that for a minute he is trying to make a buck off us but to share in his passion for these cars with us. So that we could enjoy our cars for years to come.

If you don't know about ZDDP Plus follow the link.

Steve

ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP Additive for Classic Cars - Agricultural Equipment & More

Steve,

Again nothing said is/was aimed at RC or his product.

The article that I posted is from the zddplus.com website.

The part thats underlined is not my opinion. I'm trying to get a better understanding for all of us.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

how was it misunderstood bout 'snake oil'? and why doesn't he explain the misunderstanding himself.

I'm just learning here but seems like the way to wrap that up...

 

[Bweavy]

how was it misunderstood bout 'snake oil'? and why doesn't he explain the misunderstanding himself.

I'm just learning here but seems like the way to wrap that up...

I think that would do it.

I personally have never seen a car fail because it didn't have zddp in it. I also have never seen a car fail because it had to much. Have I seen cam wear, yes. Do I have the abiity, testing, or resources to say it was zddp no I do not & wouldn't pretend to.

I think when you make statements of snake oil you should have a better education then the person producing snake oil. There was alot of things directed in those statements that you had to be a vendor to understand.
Maybe Glen should post his broadcast & explain what he meant by the statements that were made. I'm sure he could pull the recordings up & explain when statements were made about being made in China & it wasn't directed towards Richard Clarke or ZDDP directly. Other manufacturers?

That would straighten this out quickly.