"109" Stock Block Class Racing - What's the Point Anymore?

[Dusty Bradford]

If Stage blocks were allowed we'd be all for it.

 

[V6RACER]

Subscribed.

 

[Reggie West]

Not to pee on the parade here but I see two problems with going to Stage blocks.

1 Stage blocks crack too. Usually it's along the freeze plugs and that makes for a slippery ride down the track.

2 After 24 years, I think availability of enough 3.8 stage blocks will be difficult to find. The TA block is the only viable alternative. Perhaps TA could come up with some sort of class discount on the block if you could get enough peoplen involved in the class?

 

[SGRIM]

I think the bottom line is taken what you can work with and pushing it as far as you can without going over the cliff... It really doesn't matter what class/block/turbo you have, someone will keep going...

 

[charlief1]

The point of racing is for it to be

1) enjoyable...
2) repeatable
3) affordable.

One has to select parts that will hang at the performance level one wants to be at.. whatever that is... Once past that point, it gets old quick. This is the problem with "racing" and using stock parts... And the problem with classes that limit this... eventually gets old.. and car count dies.

The initial draw is running a stock block appears inexpensive as you already have one.. its the "it broke".. I now have 1000's of dollars tied up in the project and cant back out..

Here is the problem as Julio has stated. Restrictions of using a stock block was great when the blocks and parts were abundant. It's been quite a few years since the parts were in production and fairly easy to find. All types of racing is suffering because of antiquated parts that are getting harder to find and more expensive. Ours are getting even harder than finding a part for a SBC and were never really easy to find in the first place.

I know I have a tendancy to harp on the dirt track things some times but look at it this way. 20 years ago you could pick up a car for $100 complete, put a cage in it and a cheap rebuild and go racing. You might have $1,000 in the car total. Now just to run the slowest classes you will have over 5K in the car alone, not including the trailer and safety equipment.

We're headed down the same road here. I scrounge my ass off to find parts and get them on the cheap as well as do as much of my own work so I've got less than others invested in my projects. I'm willing to use parts that really shouldn't be used like a .060 block and Hypers and a flat tappet cam but that's what I'm stuck with right now.

Getting away from the "109" block is really needed to keep the classes alive and make them more expensive innitially, but cheaper in the long run. If you blow a block that you've spent a bunch of money prepping and then something lets go you're back to square one because the block cracked? Now the money is doubled, so it would be cheaper in the long run to allow for a better block like a Stage or TA block. Either that or slow the classes down where the parts are under less stress and will live longer.

 

[Team Banana]

We have been running the same block for five years. If stage blocks are allowed in tsm we will put Tim's motor in my ths car and put a v8 in the banana.
Tsm was built around three base rules and if you change them you change the whole class.
109 are $400 to $600 and so far we have got five years out of one in the nines.
How much are stage blocks?

 

[Bent6]

Stage blocks should be allowed and the rest of the rules remain the same. Problem is going to be cubic inch limitations because no one is going to find a plethora of 3.8 Stage 2 blocks. I dont know if the TA block can be had in that small of a bore or not.

I agree with leaving everything else the same. I've thought of the cubic inch thing as well. While the supply of 3.8 S2 blocks is probably scarce, the TA block can be had in eiither 3.8 or 4.0 bore sizes. I don't know if they have a casting # to identify which is which.

I think the bottom line is taken what you can work with and pushing it as far as you can without going over the cliff... It really doesn't matter what class/block/turbo you have, someone will keep going...

That's just how all heads up racing goes Shane.

Nothing wrong with pushing it over the cliff just as long as you have a parachute. :biggrin:


What really needs to happen in all of the TR heads up classes is just some minor tweaking that would allow folks to cross over and be competitive in non-Buick events as well.

 

[Mike E]

We have been running the same block for five years. If stage blocks are allowed in tsm we will put Tim's motor in my ths car and put a v8 in the banana.
Tsm was built around three base rules and if you change them you change the whole class.
109 are $400 to $600 and so far we have got five years out of one in the nines.
How much are stage blocks?

Add a $425 girdle and machine work to fit it to that 109. Cost to Bore, hone, deck, align hone is a wash between the two. But, I bet you are looking at $1100 minimum for the block, girdle and girdle machine work.

From my recent search for an on center stage block, I saw them as low as $1000 for repaired blocks up to $2000 for very nice blocks. I bought a block with one sleeve for $1400. The problem is, like Bent6 said above, you probably won't find an affordable or useable 3.8X bore block. A 4.0 or bigger block with a 3.4 stroke crank is still over the cid limit for tsm. The TA can be had in a 3.9" bore. They list them on their website for $4K.

 

[KevinB]

Class organizers could always give stage 2 engines a wieght penalty.

 

[V6RACER]

Class organizers could always give stage 2 engines a wieght penalty.

Weight break for 109 The cars are way too heavy now..

 

[Bent6]

Weight break for the 109 would be a good compromise just so long as it's a reasonable amount.

I totally agree that the cars don't need to be any heavier.

 

[KevinB]

Weight break for 109 The cars are way too heavy now..

That would work too!

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Weight break for 109 The cars are way too heavy now..

I like the sound of that.

 

[southern boost]

I just don't understand this thread it has no purpose to me not tryin to be a a$$ by no means .


A couple guys bring up expense I have several blocks i'm runnin same block bought laz and roy several yrs ago I can build 2 or 3 blocks for the cost it take buy and prep one stage block.

Then it was said that stage block isnt performance gain diagree there to, extra bolts for the heads and stronger block way easier to make power with a stronger block

Finally ,if you take the 109 out of tsm it will be a class full 8 sec cars ,I've look at stage motor lot more cost then my 109 ,also the girdle swap from one block to another.I run alot of local stuff win sometimes ,my point I don't see a point.

 

[tom robison]

If TSM were to allow stage blocks, say good by to Mr.8847 and hello to Mr.71hpq again. I would make the switch. No of a few others aswell.

 

[Team Banana]

If TSM were to allow stage blocks, say good by to Mr.8847 and hello to Mr.71hpq again. I would make the switch. No of a few others aswell.

Do you think you can keep that beast together with a 71hpq.

 

[KevinB]

Do you think you can keep that beast together with a 71hpq.

At least it will hook in oil lol

 

[tom robison]

Do you think you can keep that beast together with a 71hpq.

Yeah, I think so. Everybody has a bad day every once in a while. Wait a sec isn't your chit blown up right now to? lol

 

[Team Banana]

Yeah, I think so. Everybody has a bad day every once in a while. Wait a sec isn't your chit blown up right now to? lol

Yeah it is hurt a little but after five years and hundreds of mid to low 9 second passes something had to give.....just saying.
Why don't you just put a 109 together and run with the rules instead of trying to get them changed.
It so easy a cave man can do it. :biggrin:

 

[Kip]

It so easy a cave man can do it. :biggrin:

Hillbilly is what came to my mind.

See ya, Kip