11.999 On Stock Heads?
- Thread starter Boost231
- Start date
boostmaster
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2001
Too big to be streetable with your set up the 64 needs ported heads and more stall than you currently have. If you are trapping @ 106-108 mph already all you need is another 5-8 mph and a good 60ft you may just squeak in. If you are going to run 26 + psi I would highly suggest you run race fuel with or without alcohol. By the way if I recall correctly the turbo the Gallina's ran was much smaller than your current Ta54 cause it was in the stock housing per NHRA rules. Also you might want to try a taller tire 28" which will help keep the rpms lower.
im going to get Mickey Thompson ET Street Radial Tires 275/60/15\'s i just had the slicks so i was running those till there dead. as far as the turbo im going to do heads but just not for about 6 months. my turbo is at precision right now so im wondering if i should go bigger now since im doing heads later or stick with the 54 from here on out.
Jay C. is totally right, Marka Gallina's car was blueprinted by Ken Duttweiler. The heads were stock. The turbo was stock also. Now what was not stock. They had 36lb injectors with DFI and 86 headers. Weird up tube to turbo. Stock blueprinted turbo... 3000 stall convertor. This was a continuation of HOT ROD and Ken Duttweiler's K/Stock 85 Grand National that ran 12.60's in 1985. Yes I did say 12.60's in 1985. Duttweiler had this car on kill with stock parts. He did fab a 3 in downpipe and was running 30 lbs of BOOST. At 30-34lbs, the car would lauch with the wheels in the air and fall flat on its face, but after second gear it would take off like a jet. In 1985 DFI was new and there were no tuners really tuning the cars. Ken cut his teeth on the 85 GN. He basically found out what works and what don't (like 4.56 gears in a stock GN).
Aside from the tuning that we need to do, I think our next focus should be on dropping the 60ft times. Your car does pretty well already with 100% stock suspension and 5 year old dried up ET streets. Im thinking we should first check rear pinion angle. If thats good, box the stock rear control arms and put a HR Parts rear sway bar on it. Remove the front sway bar. While we have the trans out fixing that freeze plug.....decide on putting a trans brake in it. if no brake, then S10 wheel cylinders and larger shoes. I think these things would really help the 60ft without destroying the ride quality like my car has.
the trans brake is going to wait. i will do that when i do the heads. i know i still need to do the s10 wheel cylinders and the larger shoes but you havent come over and done it yet. as far as the HR Parts bar that will come as soon as i get this POS back toghter. STUPID TURBO
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
No, the turbo was not stock.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I dont really agree with that. With a small exhaust housing, I think that turbo would be fine. It might be a little soft on the bottom but I think it would be manageable. If it's not, worst comes to worst, have the converter restalled.
When buying a turbo, ALWAYS buy the most turbo you can, within reason. Then you don't get trapped in the upgrade game.
i agree. thats why im asking if i should go bigger to get it over with since i will be doing the heads in the next year. i thought the Ta-54 would be big enough since i had a Ta-49 and the Ta-54 is somewhat bigger but im now wondering if i should go bigger and get the biggest Ta series Precision offers the TA-64. i have been looking at a alot of peoples setup that have 11 sec hot airs and it seems there all running a larger turbo then i. humm i need to know now since im waiting to get a phone call from precision on my turbo.
boostmaster
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2001
Yes, But most large turbo's such as the 64 come of the shelf basically with a larger turbine housing. Also his goal is to go 11.99 with an unopened motor ta54-ta64 doesn't matter there will still be alot of boost pressure squeezed in the manifold and not in the motor. The bigger the turbo the more the squeeze and high boost will be a must. IMOP the 64 will be overkill and the few that have made it deep into the 11's have done it with far less turbo. Lee Thompson, Drew Carlton, John Bruce, Turbo6X2 (Jamie Wilcot), and the Gallina's did not have a turbo bigger or much larger than your current ta54 to achieve this goal. The larger the turbo the bigger stall needed to support it and the less streetable the car becomes all depends on your personal comefort level. I just don't think driving around town on a slipping trans is streetable to me. Jay Carter being the expert on this should clarify this if I am wrong.
right now with the PTS 9X11 Converter its a 2800-3000 flash stall and it spools my 54 like its a stocker. im not worried about have to get the converter restalled or having bad street manners as this car is out to have fun on the weekends and look good and kick some A** and having fun whoopin some 87 
I still think maximizing your current combo will yield bottom 12's. Dropping the 60 ft times will bring you to your 11.99 goal. I understand the thought of going bigger now since your current turbo is broken waiting repair at precision. My opinion is we need to finally tune the combo and see what is the best we can do before putting more parts at it. The car went 12.6 in the heat of the day with a Ok 60ft after just 3 passes after what 4 years sitting.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I guess it comes down to what school of thought you subscribe to. I am a firm believer in "you can never have too much turbo", within reason, especially if the turbo is broken and you're going to have to have it rebuilt anyway.
Early on when the turbo upgrades started flowing like water over Niagra Falls, I fell into the upgrade trap. For many, MANY years, we had pretty much no upgrade options. It was either the Garrett Stage 2 or stock. Then Turbonetics rolled out their upgrades and shortly thereafter Precision and Limit followed. I'd buy a turbo, not be happy with how it performed and buy another and another. I quickly learned that A) that was stupid and B) it cost a lot.
After that, I started selling people turbos based on how fast they wanted to go, not how fast they were, fully explaining that the turbo isnt going to get you there without the supporting cast but also that you won't ever need another turbo.
Optimizing what you have is a good start but if this is a street car that you drive around regularly, it's going to be very difficult to keep it in optimum tune going between the street and the track. For that reason, I wouldn't expect to be able to wring every ounce of power out of it. If it's a trailer queen, well, that's a different story altogether.
Early on when the turbo upgrades started flowing like water over Niagra Falls, I fell into the upgrade trap. For many, MANY years, we had pretty much no upgrade options. It was either the Garrett Stage 2 or stock. Then Turbonetics rolled out their upgrades and shortly thereafter Precision and Limit followed. I'd buy a turbo, not be happy with how it performed and buy another and another. I quickly learned that A) that was stupid and B) it cost a lot.
After that, I started selling people turbos based on how fast they wanted to go, not how fast they were, fully explaining that the turbo isnt going to get you there without the supporting cast but also that you won't ever need another turbo.
Optimizing what you have is a good start but if this is a street car that you drive around regularly, it's going to be very difficult to keep it in optimum tune going between the street and the track. For that reason, I wouldn't expect to be able to wring every ounce of power out of it. If it's a trailer queen, well, that's a different story altogether.
Jay
You are one of the credible experts on alot of boards. If a stock 87 can run 11.80's , short of a intercooler, could a HOT AIR also... I am aware of the turbo difference. I have ran alot 86/87 and the HOT AIR will leave a intercooled car. Top of second, intercooler takes over. Could a HOT Air duplicate the same results. Obviously Lee Thompson had the determination. I sould guess anything is possible?
You are one of the credible experts on alot of boards. If a stock 87 can run 11.80's , short of a intercooler, could a HOT AIR also... I am aware of the turbo difference. I have ran alot 86/87 and the HOT AIR will leave a intercooled car. Top of second, intercooler takes over. Could a HOT Air duplicate the same results. Obviously Lee Thompson had the determination. I sould guess anything is possible?
Think about this. The fastest I've heard of the IC cars going on the factory untouched longblock is 10.7 or 10.6, can't remember. I picked up a second and nearly 10mph with an intercooler on a nearly stock hotair. I'm sure as the boost levels and number of mods rise, the intercooler helps more and more.
Personally I think it's possible. Big turbo with a big throttlebody mandatory. With the damn throttlebody before the turbo it makes a restriction which increases the pressure ratio and heats the air even more. Get a real race chip with 28-9 degrees of timing. Run a lot of alky but also run it on real C-16 and turn the boost up to the sky. Make it hook real good and I think it's possible on a cold day with good conditions.
Let me know when you try this. I want to witness it.
Personally I think it's possible. Big turbo with a big throttlebody mandatory. With the damn throttlebody before the turbo it makes a restriction which increases the pressure ratio and heats the air even more. Get a real race chip with 28-9 degrees of timing. Run a lot of alky but also run it on real C-16 and turn the boost up to the sky. Make it hook real good and I think it's possible on a cold day with good conditions.
Let me know when you try this. I want to witness it.
hey
i will let you know. this is my goal before i do heads. i want to have heads on the car before next years WCN. Maybe some of you hotair guys can come a represent as i was the only one this year. on a side not its also fun working up on some of those 87\'s. got to do it this year and i also got to race a real gnx and all he got to see is my tail lights it was great but all in fun. :biggrin:
i will let you know. this is my goal before i do heads. i want to have heads on the car before next years WCN. Maybe some of you hotair guys can come a represent as i was the only one this year. on a side not its also fun working up on some of those 87\'s. got to do it this year and i also got to race a real gnx and all he got to see is my tail lights it was great but all in fun. :biggrin:
