928 HP on the chasis dyno today - Thanks Otto

[John Wilde]

There is definitely some power in the cam but these Buick engines have a lot of limitations and need a tremendous amount of spring to run a high lift cam with the low duration that they need to have any decent cylinder pressure down low and still make power when they are cranked up. Id be willing to bet the cam in Allans engine has more duration @.050 than a TSO grind but about .6-.7 less lift. There is a lot more power in it at higher boost when we get a few things sorted out.

By memory my cam was in the 270 range @ .050 and had lift in the high .700s.
Chris Chow's was a little bit smaller.
Both were custom Duttweiler grinds for maximum effort stage 2 headed TT 272ci combinations.

 

[turbobitt]

Congrats, those are some big numbers. It always amazes me when guys build awesome setups and cheap out at the most vital part (tunning). Then hurt it and cry later, because they think they are saving money when they hear the cost to tune it properly (which is not only WOT). But end up spending more fixing a broken motor and STILL not have a good tune at the end of it. This is a true testimate why NOT to cut corners. Do it right the first time and enjoy the fruits of your labour. Congrats once again. Good work Otto!!!
If your file isn't enourmous, send it to my email, and I will host it for you. mricketts@novellusgraphics.com

Thanks for the offer. I sent two e-mails with two short videos. If you can post it, please excuse the condition of the car since I am in process of painting and redoing the car over.

Allan G.

 

[Amelio]

Very nice! I really like seeing these cars in "True" street form make big power like this....that is incredible! Are you on fuel with these numbers or alky? If on fuel would you be running that tune on the street or do you dial it back? Either way even if you dial it waaaay back to 20 psi you still have a monster that will handle most anything on the street. Congrats on your ride that is just F'ing sweet! Maybe one day I will have a 900hp street ride

 

[GetOwnedVette]

Sounds like a monster!!! Congrats on the #'s! Now lets see some pics and vids!!!!!

 

[ttypewhite]

[video=youtube;8l-aHlmkIJI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l-aHlmkIJI[/video]
[video=youtube;QVgOljbGWj4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgOljbGWj4[/video]

 

[JR'S1QUICK86]

Otto did wonders with my car a few weeks ago.
Took a 1 1/2 seconds off my et.
I am going back when he has time to install a new turbo.
Going with a BB 6262.
Can't wait to see those results.

he's a great guy... i took my car to Otto 3 week ago for tune and man i was :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[John Wilde]

Mike,

Thanks for hosting the videos!

 

[vic86gn]

CONGRATS !Those are great numbers.

 

[turbobitt]

Thanks everyone for the compliments. I have had some time to think about why there was no significant power gain between 30-35 pounds boost and I can only conclude two things,
1 - compressor is done
2 - Valve float

My reasoning on valve float,
For some reason, I can't believe that it is valve float. Back pressure is low, no more than 15 psi over boost pressure. The dyno pull seemed very clean. The EGT's didn't show anything. Valve float would be more RPM sensitive. If the back pressure was extreamly high it would be a different story.

My reasoning on compressor being out of breath,
Turbonetics compressor map is good for 120 lb/min airflow or 1200 HP. I don't know what the parasitic loss for drivetrain is but I here 18% is typical. 1200-18% is 984 RWHP. I'm almost there. Plus, the compressore map has a wall where the airflow stops or actually decreases after 3:1 pressure ratio.


I will need to put more thought into this.....

Allan G.

 

[turbobitt]

By memory my cam was in the 270 range @ .050 and had lift in the high .700s.
Chris Chow's was a little bit smaller.
Both were custom Duttweiler grinds for maximum effort stage 2 headed TT 272ci combinations.

Wow,
Not anywhere near that aggressive. Bison and I are kicking around some ideas on what we feel the ideal cam would be and it still wouldn't be that big. Without giving to much away, I would like to get my lift up to or near .700 but keep my duration about the same. I have a few lobes picked out that will do the job and still not be to aggressive on the ramps.

Allan G.

 

[turbobitt]

Very nice! I really like seeing these cars in "True" street form make big power like this....that is incredible! Are you on fuel with these numbers or alky? If on fuel would you be running that tune on the street or do you dial it back? Either way even if you dial it waaaay back to 20 psi you still have a monster that will handle most anything on the street. Congrats on your ride that is just F'ing sweet! Maybe one day I will have a 900hp street ride

The dyno pulls where made on Sunoco 116 maximal(Red) gas. I don't plan on running alky. I would definetly dial the boost back for street driving. I love driving this car and consider it very streetable. I don't uasually step on it since there is no chance of hooking. I will need to get back with Otto on a suitable timing curve for the street.

I've been running this basic combo for the last 10+ years. I made some changes to the compression ratio, Intake, moved the cam around, and added this turbo a few years ago but everything else is just about the same. I use to go to CT emmissions and pass with flying colors when required to go. Bison and I would have a friendly competition over our emmisions slips.

Allan G.

 

[jasjamz]

Are you looking to break a 1000 rwhp? Maybe the Turbo change will get you there. More power is nice but I'd have to say for a street enjoyable car you are already there and then some! Best of luck, thanks for sharing and keep us posted!

 

[turbobitt]

Are you looking to break a 1000 rwhp? Maybe the Turbo change will get you there. More power is nice but I'd have to say for a street enjoyable car you are already there and then some! Best of luck, thanks for sharing and keep us posted!

I was really hoping to break into the 1000+ barrier. For now at least, it is more important for me to understand why I couldn't get there. I'm not in any hurry to throw parts at it.

Allan G.

 

[charlief1]

My reasoning on compressor being out of breath,
Turbonetics compressor map is good for 120 lb/min airflow or 1200 HP. I don't know what the parasitic loss for drivetrain is but I here 18% is typical. 1200-18% is 984 RWHP. I'm almost there. Plus, the compressore map has a wall where the airflow stops or actually decreases after 3:1 pressure ratio.


I will need to put more thought into this.....

Allan G.

I'm gonna go agains the grain with every alky injection rule here but you might want to try a small alky/water spray before the turbo. If it's a very light spray it will drop temps a little more on the intercooler and may just get you the 1K HP mark. I know this goes against the tech everyone's been using for so long but there is data to show it works.

Let the hating begin.

 

[turbobitt]

I'm gonna go agains the grain with every alky injection rule here but you might want to try a small alky/water spray before the turbo. If it's a very light spray it will drop temps a little more on the intercooler and may just get you the 1K HP mark. I know this goes against the tech everyone's been using for so long but there is data to show it works.

Let the hating begin.

Not so sure there is anything to gain. My charge air temps in the manifold were about 85 degrees at 35# boost. Intercooler seems to be doing its job well. And only about 1.5 PSI drop !!!

Allan G.

 

[jasjamz]

What was the inlet temps at 26 psi?

 

[Red C5]

Freakin awesome! Congrats.

Peter

 

[turbobitt]

What was the inlet temps at 26 psi?

I don't have any data on turbo inlet temps but the manifold temps from two weeks ago were about 94 at this boost level. It was much warmer that day we were testing.

Allan G.

 

[bison]

With a bsfc of .65 hes using 1200-1250hp worth of fuel here. This engine is a little shy on the CR so the bsfc is a little high. It was hard to believe at first but the compressor is done. Plenty of room on the ex side. With just a compressor change he could pick up 100whp. Looking at the data the turbo started dropping off around 27-28psi. It should have maintained the 30-32whp/1psi gain all the way up till 35-36psi imo. At that point the compressor and ex would be working as hard as each other. Regardless id like to see what mph the car can put up with the current combo at 29-30psi.

 

[Red C5]

What's the cr and what fuel?