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A/f Ratio And Fuel Type

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norbs

Classic fast, XFI, SPortsman & MS3 programming
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
6,202
I just thought everyone should know that if your using fuels that are blended (utra 94) with ethanol you should tune for 11.4~11.5 a/f as it is equivalent to about 11.9 on regular non blended gas. The stoich is now 14.13 a/f instead of 14.7. So i would set your idle there for least emissions:)
 
Hi Norbs,

Be careful with that suggestion. The AFR you specified is only true if your wideband is also set to corrected stoich AFR for the blended fuel. Most widebands use a fixed multiplier of 14.7 to calculate AFR from Lambda and can't be programmed. Therefore on those you should not target a different "AFR", but you need to retune to achieve the same AFR as with unblended fuel. Without retuning and open loop operation, they would run leaner. In closed loop (Lambda 1.0) no retuning is neccessary because a NB O2 sensor senses Lambda 1.0 which is independent of the fuel (just use more of the blended stuff because of the lower stoich value).

Regards,
Klaus
 
Now after reading that i am confused. I have a lm-1 set to 14.7 regular gas, and i am using fuel with 10% ethanol, is stoich 14.13 on my display or is it 14.7? Do i tune .5 richer or not now?Really confusing!
 
Hi Norbs,

Yes, I know it's confusing when you are thinking in AFR. For people thinking in Lambda it's crystal clear.
The LM-1, like all widebands, measures Lambda, not AFR. For display purposes it then multiplies the measured Lambda value with the programmed AFR value. On many widebands, that multiplier is fixed at 14.7. In the LM-1 it's programmable.
For example:
Assume you tuned your engine to 0.85 Lambda. That would be 12.5 gasoline AFR (0.85 * 14.7 = 12.5). This is 15% rich. If you are running blended fuel, the engine will still produce max power at 15% rich, independent of the fuel. But, because the fuel has a lower stoich value (14.13) you need more of it to get to that 15% rich operation. If you leave the AFR multiplier at 14.7 for stoich, 15% rich from 14.7 is still 12.5. So, if your engine is running 15% rich with the blended fuel, the AFR displayed would still be 12.5 (0.85 * 14.7 = 12.5).
Only if you reprogrammed the AFR multiplier to 14.1, 15% rich would now be 12, not 12.5.

If you had your fuel maps set all correctly to run a perfect 12.5 on straight gasoline, blended fuel would now show a leaner AFR (~13) and Lambda. The reason is that there's not enough fuel to get to 15% rich because lower stoich AFR means more fuel for a certain richness %.

All this means is that if you don't care about the stoich AFR value (for mass flow calculations for example), leave it alone and tune to the SAME AFR as with unblended fuel. Alternatively, screw the entire AFR metric and use Lambda.

Hope I did not confuse you more. :biggrin:

BTW: In closed loop operation (wether WB or narrowband) you don't have to worry about it, as the computer targets a certain Lambda and increases the fuel flow to reach it. That's true even IF you have programmed a target AFR, because that is again just Lambda multiplied with a stoich factor.


Regards,
Klaus
 
So according to this it should not matter what fuel i use. If i run gas or methanol blend, i still tune to lets say 11.5 for performance use, with the lm-1 set on gas always?
 
Yes, thats right. If you leave the AFR multiplier alone you tune to the same AFR value. Just keep in mind that that number then is not really the mass-ratio of air and fuel (AFR), but Lamba multiplied with a convenient factor.
Also, you need to retune when changing between blended and unblended fuel.

Regards,
Klaus
 
Thanks I understand now what is happening. I am suprised you have migrated over to this forum. More knowledge here the better :cool:
 
Hi Norbs,

I sometimes lurk on other forums as well. Trying to correct misinformation :biggrin: .
Loosing battle, I know, but I like cars too much to let them go to waste because of wrong data.

Regards,
Klaus
 
So if you guys don't mind, what do these cars tend to like A/F wise for idling purpose?

I have tried to set it @ around 14.7 and it seems to stumble. I have recently installed a FAST XFI.
 
Each car is different, but 13.8~14.2 is good on mine
 
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