Advancement of fuel delivery?

[Alky V6]

This is the rpm trace. The detail line is at the point just before nitrous activation.
After the nitrous activates, there is a sharp climb in rpm to a point where the rpm rise slows for a moment. This can be explained in two different ways:
The first explanation is that the engine has hit the new stall speed of the torque converter and the engine is waiting for the turbo to spool and catch up to the engine. The turbo does finally catch up and begins to build boost, which is where you see the rpm begin to rise again.

The second explanation, and I think this is exactly what is happening, is that the engine hits the new stall speed (0 boost) on the nitrous, and the turbo is spooling and catching up to the engine. This period is what I call the hump. During this period the extra nitrous/fuel that made it past the combustion process lights off in the exhaust. This is evidenced by the sharp rise in the O2 reading. With the turbo just coming up to speed where it can now begin to build boost, all of a sudden there is a large surge in exhaust energy from the mixture that is burning in the exhaust system. This scenario is evidenced by the very sharp initial rise in rpm after the hump.

 

[Alky V6]

One more very important note of interest.

If you study all the traces, you will see that all of them were still on a very steep climb when I got off the throttle. Interesting, isn't it.

There should be some interesting testing at the track coming up.

 

[Alky V6]

Joila- and once again, max torque against the stall has won the day (for now).

Don, about your 2 step strategy- how about trying it w/o the timing retard feature and just let it run a straight cylinder cut approach? Seems like passing unburned a/f charge into the exh (because of cyl cut) might get your turbine energy up and thus MAP higher? Have you experimented with that yet?

TurboTR

Long ago I tried cutting cylinders and it just flooded the engine. I think that was with the second engine build.
It looks like I won't be needing the 2 step for spooling help now. I'm going to set it up for staging rpm limit only. I'll use the soft rev limit feature. It'll just softly come up to say 2300 rpm and it'll stick there until I release the transbrake button.

 

[Alky V6]

Tuning issues to explore at the track.

Pick a staging rev limit rpm.

Move the nitrous on-time while on the transbrake up in 0.100 sec. steps until the rpm/map rise starts to nose over before transbrake release, or the nitrous/boost becomes too much at the launch for the tires to handle.

Keep the spool valve out of the picture until it's clear whether it can be helpful and where it might be useful in the launch.

The amount of nitrous retard is presently 18 degrees which gives 16 degrees btdc timing when on the nitrous. This is obviously excessive from a nitrous power point of view. Work on decreasing the amount of nitrous retard, but not so much that the afterburner affect is lost.

If a good boost level develops in first gear, search for an upper boost limit for the 1-2 shift.

Start cranking in on the wastegate adjustment to creep the top end boost limit up.

 

[charlief1]

You're going to have flames shooting out the back of your car Donnie. I want to see a vid of this when you go. I think I'll be laughing so hard when you launch. Maybe we need to add a gril on the back of your car so you can cook dinner while you drive. LOL

 

[Alky V6]

You're going to have flames shooting out the back of your car Donnie. I want to see a vid of this when you go. I think I'll be laughing so hard when you launch. Maybe we need to add a gril on the back of your car so you can cook dinner while you drive. LOL

LOL. I don't think the flame will get to the end of the pipe. Besides, it's a methanol flame. Invisible in the daylight. :biggrin: Tee hee.

 

[charlief1]

LOL. I don't think the flame will get to the end of the pipe. Besides, it's a methanol flame. Invisible in the daylight. :biggrin: Tee hee.

Maybe you ought to put an injector in the exhaust pipe so you can look like a rocket car.:biggrin: That would be very funny.:smile:

 

[Alky V6]

Maybe you ought to put an injector in the exhaust pipe so you can look like a rocket car.:biggrin: That would be very funny.:smile:

That might be cool. If I get bored I can plumb something from the primer fuel tank (gasoline). :tongue:

 

[charlief1]

That might be cool. If I get bored I can plumb something from the primer fuel tank (gasoline). :tongue:

You're reading my Mind Donnie.:biggrin: Now that would be funny for sure and think how many track go-ers would be posting it as "This guy blew flames". LMFAO.

 

[aminga]

That might be cool. If I get bored I can plumb something from the primer fuel tank (gasoline). :tongue:

Could be a new idea to heat the methanol so it will vaporize.

 

[Alky V6]

Could be a new idea to heat the methanol so it will vaporize.

We're talking about injecting the gasoline near the exit of the exhaust pipe. There won't be much methanol left to vaporize at that point in the exhaust system. It's to copy the ol' 1950s trick to get flames out of the tailpipes.

My crankcase evac pump dumps into the exhaust pipe, about 1.5 feet from the end. I run an open breather so maybe the evac pump will supply some oxygen along with the blowby that may support combustion with the addition of some gas. So what is a simple setup for injecting the gasoline? I don't want to spend a bunch for this trick.
I can have the ecm control any solenoid or injector so that it occurs at a programmed point, and can tee off of the gasoline line feeding the cold start system after the pump, but before the safety shutoff solenoid for the cold start system. The ecm would control the pump and an extra safety shutoff solenoid in the 'flammer' system. So all I need is some fuel line, a tee fitting, another safety shutoff solenoid, an nozzle or injector, and a mounting boss on the exhaust pipe.
I would probably need a spark source too?

I'd probably get kicked off the track for trying to set the track on fire. :tongue:

 

[aminga]

We're talking about injecting the gasoline near the exit of the exhaust pipe. There won't be much methanol left to vaporize at that point in the exhaust system. It's to copy the ol' 1950s trick to get flames out of the tailpipes.

My crankcase evac pump dumps into the exhaust pipe, about 1.5 feet from the end. I run an open breather so maybe the evac pump will supply some oxygen along with the blowby that may support combustion with the addition of some gas. So what is a simple setup for injecting the gasoline? I don't want to spend a bunch for this trick.
I can have the ecm control any solenoid or injector so that it occurs at a programmed point, and can tee off of the gasoline line feeding the cold start system after the pump, but before the safety shutoff solenoid for the cold start system. The ecm would control the pump and an extra safety shutoff solenoid in the 'flammer' system. So all I need is some fuel line, a tee fitting, another safety shutoff solenoid, an nozzle or injector, and a mounting boss on the exhaust pipe.
I would probably need a spark source too?

I'd probably get kicked off the track for trying to set the track on fire. :tongue:

I know it was a poor attempt at humor. You'd be like that mooswang owner with his turbos on the mufflers.

Exhaust flames are the coolest thing of the 50's. But you could throw a little NOS in there with it and investigate the afterburner effect

 

[Alky V6]

I know it was a poor attempt at humor. You'd be like that mooswang owner with his turbos on the mufflers.

Exhaust flames are the coolest thing of the 50's. But you could throw a little NOS in there with it and investigate the afterburner effect

On my!!! You're really trying to get me in trouble.

 

[charlief1]

We're talking about injecting the gasoline near the exit of the exhaust pipe. There won't be much methanol left to vaporize at that point in the exhaust system. It's to copy the ol' 1950s trick to get flames out of the tailpipes.

My crankcase evac pump dumps into the exhaust pipe, about 1.5 feet from the end. I run an open breather so maybe the evac pump will supply some oxygen along with the blowby that may support combustion with the addition of some gas. So what is a simple setup for injecting the gasoline? I don't want to spend a bunch for this trick.
I can have the ecm control any solenoid or injector so that it occurs at a programmed point, and can tee off of the gasoline line feeding the cold start system after the pump, but before the safety shutoff solenoid for the cold start system. The ecm would control the pump and an extra safety shutoff solenoid in the 'flammer' system. So all I need is some fuel line, a tee fitting, another safety shutoff solenoid, an nozzle or injector, and a mounting boss on the exhaust pipe.
I would probably need a spark source too?

I'd probably get kicked off the track for trying to set the track on fire. :tongue:

I know it was a poor attempt at humor. You'd be like that mooswang owner with his turbos on the mufflers.

Exhaust flames are the coolest thing of the 50's. But you could throw a little NOS in there with it and investigate the afterburner effect

On my!!! You're really trying to get me in trouble.

This is a really funny idea Donnie. Just imagine doing this as the last run of the night after you did most of your testing. You'd be the talk of the track for sure and it would look kinda cool. It might get you kicked off the track after you did you're final run but imagine the looks and laughs you'd get. You have to admit it would be fun to "smoke" the competition after all.

 

[Alky V6]

Some kind of misting nozzle? What size? Do we want just a hint of flame, or a full blown flame thrower?

 

[Alky V6]

I went to an in-car video I have on youtube and started to play the video from the start of the 7:20 timeframe. This is what the new launch should be like.
Or, should I wait at the line just a tad bit longer on the nitrous so that the launch looks like the end of the 7:20 timeframe,... or the start of the 7:21 timeframe?

The launches are from 4200 rpm (start of 7:20 timeframe) and 4500 rpm (end of 7:20 timeframe).

Check it out: YouTube - DRW / Buick V6 Alky v3.2 20L video test
The ignition timing on-the-nitrous on this pass was 13-14 degrees btdc. I'll be starting the next round of testing with the timing at 16 degrees btdc on-the-nitrous.

 

[aminga]

Some kind of misting nozzle? What size? Do we want just a hint of flame, or a full blown flame thrower?

YOu want to singe the banners on the side of the track.

 

[Alky V6]

YOu want to singe the banners on the side of the track.

LOL OK. :tongue:

 

[charlief1]

YOu want to singe the banners on the side of the track.

I agree completely Al. MAKE IT A FLAME THOWER DONNIE.:biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Guys,... I don't want to make the flame thrower so powerful that it pushes the car into the other side wall.