Are the HA's fading into oblivion?

[cwmccray]

Mike
Based on your signature, you have the bottom end for it. I have two 4.1 on the engine stands now. Spent the farm on the pistions and bottom end:frown:. I have a 204/214 cam(SPEED PRO/EDELBROCK) that is a killer in a 3.8. This cam idles good and top end is INSANE... Many have ran 10's with this cam. I hope to put a roller in the other 4.1 with a little more 224/234 dur. Do a search on LEEO. He had some success with 4.1 until he went to STAGE 4.1. TURBO6X2 became the second HA in the 10's with smaller cubes (3.8).

I had one of my 4.1 setup to run like a 4.1 INDY engine. After looking at the INDY engine I came up with using a modded 87 intake, waste gate on the crossover, LEEO style downpipe. INDY cars really do not need intercoolers because they run on methanol... hence, I was considering running methanol just like Don Wang... Due to lack of money, CHAMPION/GN1 heads would be the last part of my puzzle.

Then I started looling at the INDY Riviera engine and thought about twin turbos with a 87 modded intake. To my knowledge, no one has done this... However, I love what 1DOLLARDOG has done with twin rear mounts.

Untill I get some money everything is on hold....... Can't blame a guy for being different....

 

[MikeStarner]

Well I don't have it in my sig but I already have diamond slugs and I believe scat rods the cam is a 224 roller, I just don't know yet whether to jump the fence to I/C or to find a better flowing intake for this thing and run e85 and bigger turbo to shoot for B.A. hotair

 

[turbonut85]

Well I don't have it in my sig but I already have diamond slugs and I believe scat rods the cam is a 224 roller, I just don't know yet whether to jump the fence to I/C or to find a better flowing intake for this thing and run e85 and bigger turbo to shoot for B.A. hotair

We gotta get together soon and trade some ideas....:biggrin:

 

[MikeStarner]

You're right keith we do. I believe I got the bottom end to blow some doors off, but don't know where to go.

 

[cwmccray]

Intake wise, in my honest opinion (PLEASE do Flame me), the 86/87 OUTFLOWS the most modded HA intake. Please do not take this the wrong way, but BUICK saw something when they changed the setup in 86. Even if I do not intercool, I would use the 86/87 intake... To me the advantage is moving the TB off the turbo. TURBO6X2, LEEO, BRENT and ERIC SINGER have proved that the intake can and will get you in the 10's, but the 86/87 intake is MUCH better. Do a search, one of our deceased member's (the late great BRUCE, rip) removed his intercooler off his 600hp GN and used alky. He gained boost and reduced back pressure just removing the intercooler. This got me interested in the INDY BUICKS. The BUICK Motorsports group took a STOCK block V6 and won INDY, also setting records. Buddy Ingersoll had a INDY turbo on his record setting Buick Pro Stocker... HELL he scared BOB GLIDDENRICKY SMITHand all of IHRA PRO STOCK with a 257 cu in BUICK
. To make things really worst.... He had two modded stock intercoolers when he moved to a twin turbo setup. That speaks volumes when you think about HOW DARN good the stocker really is...

With the 86/87 intake, the runner are raised and you could easily inject alky in the intake with a NOS plate.. heck you probably could do both

If the money EVER gets right, I would twin turbo a HA with a 86 intake. There is a member on the board with a yellow 4.5 liter Malibu. It has a slick dual injected (12 injector ) intake system that switches injectors during boost (I believe his name is Vernon). With this setup, I would contact the mad, mad scientist, Don Wang and figure out how to run pure methanol and or/E 85.

This is what dreams are made of.... It never hurts to dream.. one day it will come true

 

[1BADTT]

Just a matter of time really...

Are we a dying breed?

They all are! Hot airs & Intercooled...

 

[MikeStarner]

We are not dying off we are just becoming more elite.

 

[turbonut85]

You're right keith we do. I believe I got the bottom end to blow some doors off, but don't know where to go.

Ahh, young Grasshoppa....Come, joina the Turbo Farm West...we shall pointa you in the right direction....ehh....burrrpp.....

 

[Boost231]

Intake wise, in my honest opinion (PLEASE do Flame me), the 86/87 OUTFLOWS the most modded HA intake. :

:wink: i got alittle somethin somethin

 

[kaj]

We are not dying off we are just becoming more elite.

 

[scpls19398]

I bet my 84 intake will flow!!!, Details to come a at a later date.:biggrin:

 

[boostmaster]

Intake wise, in my honest opinion (PLEASE do Flame me), the 86/87 OUTFLOWS the most modded HA intake. Please do not take this the wrong way, but BUICK saw something when they changed the setup in 86.

Reallyyyy!!!! As long as you've been on this site and as much info as you disperse ever single post that you submit. My friend it's time you start fact checking your statements instead of just submitting your own asumptions as fact. The truth is yes the 86-87 intake does out flow the 84-85 intake but what you continue to omit from your statements was the reason the design is different. 84-85 intakes where designed to use with water injection, they have long runners that while they will not out flow the later intakes they do create tons more torque at the bottom end which is what long runners do. That is why our cars have the power injection light still in the dash. Gm abandoned this idea for many reasons but the biggest was fear of customer warranty issues do to the end user not keeping water in their resrvoirs. The switch to an intercooled set up was mechanically simpler and pretty much maintenance free, yet yielded great results. It's on all the time, no refilling, no risk of customer negligence.

That in itself tells you that the 84-85 does make power it just makes it in a different targeted area.

Mike Starner, I don't care how many billet, forged, girlded parts you have on your 4.1 you will not make it into the bottom 10's, high 9's on a production block. At least not many times. The block will come apart at the webbing as it is not designed to withstand that type of power. JUST FOR THE RECORD..... YOU MAY MAKE IT BUT NOT SUSTAIN THAT LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE FOR LONG ON A PRODUCTION 4.1. If it where that simple everyone would be doing it already. Yes Lee Thompson was the first Hot Air to make it into the 10's but he did it with a Stage II 4.1 not a production block.
I do believe a production 4.1 will run 10's reliably, maybe even mid 10's but low 10's...not long. One back fire or serious knock and there goes the block.

 

[MikeStarner]

See that's the feedback I was looking for, I will now shoot for 10.60-10.99

 

[jdpolzin]

In my opinion, the Hot Air cars are making a serious come back, especially with E85 introduced. Your going to start to see some serious contendors in the HA category in the next couple years.



As far as the 4.1 statements have gone, there have been many many many 4.1 with hyper pistons reliably cruising in the 10's. I have made it my mission to push the 4.1 block to it's limit with HYPERS this year. My current set up is a 484 casting, stock capped, no girdle, Hyper pistons, stock heads, stock fuel lines, E85. I garauntee consistant 10's with this set up this year. We love the 4.1 here at Turbo Farm West!:tongue:

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

In my opinion, the Hot Air cars are making a serious come back, especially with E85 introduced. Your going to start to see some serious contendors in the HA category in the next couple years.

I am eating my words now. Just ordered 80lb injectors and an E85 chip. Brad

 

[jdpolzin]

In my opinion, the Hot Air cars are making a serious come back, especially with E85 introduced. Your going to start to see some serious contendors in the HA category in the next couple years.

I am eating my words now. Just ordered 80lb injectors and an E85 chip. Brad

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin: No prob Brad! Your going to love it! ------Jeremy

 

[MikeStarner]

The few, the proud, the TURBO REGALS! At least that's how I look at it, lol

 

[Boostnitup]

Making a come back?

Laughing here... no they are not. They are becoming more rare each passing year - as you continue to drive and risk your investments to grandma's turning out in front of you, or someone T-boning you in an intersection.

My '84 GN still has Grand National badging on it - thus whatever I do to it has no bearing on perception. I have the most loaded '84 GN out there... I have the record amount of build codes so it remains valued by someone.

I see a couple different options the next time around; a stage 2 set up... or a turbo V8 - Why? Just to make you purist's lose your mind.

 

[MikeStarner]

at least the state of mind is here for some of us that no matter what OLD PEOPLE SHOULDNT DRIVE, lol but seriously the idea of loving your car because its yours and its your passion is coming back and ill tell you this at least the few of us that are maintaining ours are not making a come back, but we are doing more to bring respect back to these HA regals

 

[MikeStarner]

As far as the 4.1 statements have gone, there have been many many many 4.1 with hyper pistons reliably cruising in the 10's. I have made it my mission to push the 4.1 block to it's limit with HYPERS this year. My current set up is a 484 casting, stock capped, no girdle, Hyper pistons, stock heads, stock fuel lines, E85. I garauntee consistant 10's with this set up this year. We love the 4.1 here at Turbo Farm West!:tongue:

at least with you and keith being able to point me in the right direction we can get this beast of mine going fast with little issues.