Banning People

[N2HIPSI]

I do not tie the people that use this board to the board itself. The ability to "hear" peoples experiences(good or bad) in this small community is invaluable. It seems that everyone here has had a good or bad interaction with others. The sharing of these experiences allows all of us to gather the facts and make educated decisions on where we spend our money. If a vendor has an issue with his products or his services, they will only hurt themselves. However, I feel that people will be left out on good, innovative products by this boards need to make the "banning" of people its decision. This community(that WE are all part of) will BAN the offenders by not purchasing their products. If I purchase a product from someone and have a problem with it, I don't expect this board to solve it. I would never have a problem with the board for allowing the vendor to continue to contribute to the board as an advertiser. I have a question for the moderators on the board.

If the board really has a calling to be responsible to its members, then should you allow Terry Houstons name to be mentioned?

Can a banned person ever rectify the issues of the past and be allowed to return?

I appreciate the opportunity to post these questions and will be looking forward to your responses.

Marley Hay

 

[WE4]

Originally posted by N2HIPSI
I have a question for the moderators on the board.

If the board really has a calling to be responsible to its members, then should you allow Terry Houstons name to be mentioned?

Can a banned person ever rectify the issues of the past and be allowed to return?

I appreciate the opportunity to post these questions and will be looking forward to your responses.

Marley Hay

Answer to Question #1...

WHAT the hell does Terry Houston have to do with anything?

Answer to Question #2

Yes, with the apropriate buisness practices and provin track record with Nick Micale , By all means it would be a pleasure to be able to put this behind us and move on.



I appreciate the oppertunity to answer these posted questions
and am curious as to why you ask them?
I have been a part of TB.com for along time and I only know of very few Bans that have taken place. I hate it, Nick Hates it, Jack hates it,
Do you honestly think I enjoy this?
Do you think it is some kind of power trip? Cause I'll tell ya, It sucks to have to make some of the decisions we do.
And , Now we have a committee that all DISCUSS EVERYTHING we do. There are 4 of us. No one of us is a lone soldier. We ALL agree before anything is touched , tweaked, discussed, or any action is taken.
I thought Nicks description of why the ban took place was good but he still didn't tell you EXACTLY how much TIME and MONEY he spent to even TRY to discuss this with The party in question. I sure wish he would , then maybe you would understand.

 

[N2HIPSI]

I respect your right to do what is needed to moderate the board. I also appreciate the time you all dedicate to it. I enjoy the board and use it alot. I just want to be able to see all of the choices and make my own decisions. If I have a success story (or bad experience)with a certain product I want to be able to share that knowledge with others. Banning the vendor is one thing, banning all discussion of him and/or his products by all members seems harsh.
As far as Terry Houston goes, I was pointing out that you have made a decision to ban a vendor with poor customer service(quality products, mind you) and all mention of him/his products, but have not banned Terry or discussion of his products for severe moral and criminal actions(found guilty in a court of law). I do not want to start a fight with the moderators on the board or get myself banned, I only wanted to present my feeling on the subject. I will not post on this subject again.
Thank You,
Marley

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by N2HIPSI
I do not tie the people that use this board to the board itself. The ability to "hear" peoples experiences(good or bad) in this small community is invaluable. It seems that everyone here has had a good or bad interaction with others. The sharing of these experiences allows all of us to gather the facts and make educated decisions on where we spend our money........................................................................................................Can a banned person ever rectify the issues of the past and be allowed to return?......... Marley Hay

Marley, your post is very mature and valuable, thanks.

We most certainly welcome any discussion about vendors, good or bad. We will not tolerate name-calling, bashing or offensive comments. You are right, done in this manner, it is invaluable to the Buick community.

We tried to resolve the KME situation for weeks without success and decided to move on without him. I am working with some of the distressed customers directly to help resolve their problem.

I plan to be in direct contact with Keith and hope we can eventially work through this unfortunate state. I personally like him and would like to see his evential return. The decision was based upon business practices, not a personality issue. This is another reason we decided to not allow any board discussion as it has always turned ugly.

Your post is appreciated as it allowed Bruce and I to give further details about how we feel about the board. It is ALL the moderators and administrators opinion that the most valuable object of the board is its MEMBERS.

 

[WE4]

HRMMMMMMM....

I neither condem nor condone Terry Houstons actions, however, it is his private life, has no effect on this board and he has done NOTHING to even be referred to on this board. His personal actions have NO bearing on this board and have been/will never be even considered.
Court of law or not, nobody knows the full story and I for one don't care.
All that matters is he does not effect the board and/or it's members.

That is ALL I want to hear about this subject again, ever!
I feel it is personal and DO NOT want it brought up again. Just as if something were to happen to you, we would never air it just "because" it was controversial.


Bruce
WE4
TB.com Administration.

 

[Jesse]

Originally posted by N2HIPSI

Can a banned person ever rectify the issues of the past and be allowed to return?

Yes I believe so ....with stipulations I am sure

Now we have a committee that all DISCUSS EVERYTHING we do. There are 4 of us. No one of us is a lone soldier. We ALL agree before anything is touched , tweaked, discussed, or any action is taken.

As Bruce said there are 4 of us that talk via phone on a almost daily bases , the reason is so that before we make a final decision we have each others opinions and thoughts to help each other make the best decision on the matter and/or subject at hand.

As far as Terry Houston goes his situation is NOT comparable or should be referenced to this perticular situation.

I personally appreciate your approach to this matter and respecting our decision.



Thank you
Jesse

 

[TTA89]

You guys own and run the board and with that you can do it however you want. Thats your call.

I just don't understand why you can't let the members of the board decide what is good and whats bad for them? Its like your trying to herd all the cattle into a specific direction.

No Vendor bashing? Why do vendors get bashed in the first place? If you run a stand up buisness and treat your customers fairly then you shouldnt have anyone spouting off bad things about your buisness. Your always going to have 1 or 2 people that feel they got treated bad no matter what and if they make a post saying how they had poor service the 1000 other people that had great service are going to post and tell them about it.

Why not let everyone make there own decisons? I think we are all adults here, most of us spend a great deal of money in this hobby and would appreciate an unbiased view of things. If Kieth's business sucks so bad that everyone is complaining about him then its up to him to defend himself, not you guys. If someone pays advertiser fees to ANY board that doesn't give them the right to make crappy products and have the board cover up posts from customers trying to warn other people about it. (Ala PT51s)

I think there are more than a few of us that feel this way. You can read about it here Another Perspective From TurboBuicks.com

 

[Gothmog]

I was lucky enough to read the Terry Houston thread before it was deleted, and it only makes me wonder how many other threads were deleted that I never saw, because the moderators thought they weren't appropriate.
interesting...

 

[TurboMike]

Want to talk about being here along time; I think I have the record. I went through A LOT of crap on this board moderating for years but to be quiet honest I'm not a fan of the way things are going.

There are rules and regulations that should govern this board and every board but it now seems like a dictatorship/business instead of a Turbo Buick Message Board. I don't think this is what Licht and I had in mind when it was created. I've seen people get threatened, posts locked, etc for no reasons (I'm thinking about the one in transmission section awhile back…it's probably deleted now). Some vendors do what they want, others are kicked. Some are allowed to get by with more, others don't. TB.com is not a police station, or a mediating board, or a upper realm. It's a place where people come to learn about Turbo Buicks, buy and sell parts, joke and have fun, but most of all gain some great friendships. I know I have. Take this note as anyone would and please NO nasty emails correcting or threatening my attitude. I could say a lot more, but I'm not. Actually it's none of my business.

 

[Quick6]

Mike, well stated.

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by TurboMike
I've seen people get threatened, posts locked, etc for no reasons (I'm thinking about the one in transmission section awhile back…it's probably deleted now).

I remember that one all too well since it was mine and you know the rest of the story. I hiked on over to Turbobuicks where things are different than here. Nice to see two moderators from the same same company governing the turbo section (no offense). Where is the diversity or different options in that one

 

[GNVAIR]

Ban me, boot me. Do what you wish. I am going to state my opinion as I am still in America. With no disrespect to Bruce (as I think you are great person and I value your technical opinions).
But when you set up a board and bias to the vendor rather than the consumer, you will have problems and most certainly ill feelings. This board is supposed to be more tech oriented; but I still feel that if people have experienced a part failure that they should be allow to share that experience and not have someone censor it.
Case in point is the not soon forgotten budget roller and 51 turbo fiascos. When you have a vendor that technically shafted many people on these issues and then protect that vendor from people voicing the problems they experienced, it becomes blatantly clear that the little guy (who is also the consumer that puts food on the table for these vendors) doesnt mean squat. That is definitely not a vendor I would want to give my money to.
Most of us spend thousands of dollars on our cars. I know if I bought a part that destroyed my engine costing me a few thousand dollars, I wouldnt want anyone else to go through the same nightmare. But with the censor ship, no one else would ever know. That is just plain wrong. It doesnt matter if they are a paying vendor or not. The fact is everyone is human and for that reason, there is no such thing as a perfect product. Mistakes and accidents happen. Please dont sweep it under the rug like nothing happened.

 

[b4black]

Re: Re: Banning People

Originally posted by WE4
I hate it, Nick Hates it, Jack hates it,
.....
And , Now we have a committee that all DISCUSS EVERYTHING we do. There are 4 of us. ..

Who's #4? We have all gotton to know you, Bruce, pretty well and know what to expect from you, but I have no idea who Nick and Jack are. Not that it really matters, just more curious than anything.

We have gotten a lot of new moderators lately. It might help to know who's who and who does what. (Maybe it was in a thread I missed?) What's a "super" moderator?

Thanks!

 

[John Larkin]

There's always going to be a contrarian point-of-view on any topic or board or community. Would I like to know that a part failed or a vendor/seller is one to watch? Yes. However, can't we allow the management of the board to decide on an amicable way to relay this information? When left to our own devices, some board members turn these topics into a witch hunt of galactic proportions.

I for one would like to see the Good Guy/Bad Guy list linked at the top of the board with an explanation of what it is. Then there would be a forum that is separate from this board, yet available, due to content that isn't palatable for current board ethics. All the horror stories and gnashing of teeth can happen there to the whims of those who wish to participate. This would give board management an out since the forum would be available to all and would justify deleting improper threads here. Is there any interest in this as an acceptable proposal? Are there other options that would comply with current board management?

This could solve alot of unrest.

 

[SuperSix]

It's one thing to have a board owned by a vendor - another to have the majority of the moderators vendors as well.

I also don't care for the censoring of vendor-related posts. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed, (personal attacks, threads that get out of hand) but a civil discussion about a vendor's deficiencies is educating and worth while to the whole Buick community. If you're a vendor and don't want it to happen - simply provide a quality product, at a reasonable price, and offer reasonable communication. So I should only buy from vendor supported vendors? (The mods here decide which posts stay, and they are vendors - get it?) If a "vendor-bashing" thread gets out of hand, simply modify or delete the offending reply.

I agree with Larkin, the Good Guy/Bad Guy list should be a prominent sticky, and vendor-related threads should be allowed, and moderated.

Are there any mods that aren't vendors? Jesse? I just don't care for vendors moderating vendors.

I would like to close and say that yes, I know it's not my board, I have a lot of respect for the people that run it, I realize this isn't a democracy and my opinion counts for nothing, I am simply doing what I HOPE we can still do - voice our opinions in a respectable manner.

Thanks for listening,
Mark S.

 

[QWIKTURBO]

Sounds good to me...

I like the idea of a Good guy/Bad guy list. It would give a member a place to..."vent" I guess...and tell his story about said person or product. This would also give the one "accused" a place to defend themselves if they see fit or offer an explanation of why things happened the way they did. Or possibly...just add a STICKY at the top of the forum kind of like a warning of sorts. "This person has been known to have poor communication skills and rather lengthy shipping delays" or something like that.

I would hate to see a "newbie" see a product on a TR at a show somewhere and say "Damn...that is a trick piece, wonder where I would get it from or what else they make?" Then he comes on here and asks/mentions something about it and the post gets deleted without warning to him. He would feel he's asking a rather simple question and NO ONE wants to help him with it. Then this new guy forms an opinion about "us"..instead of the vendor in question. This all MY opinion of course. And yes...I know this not MY board and you guys can operate it as you see fit. I just say maybe suspend his Ads for a set period of time and maybe his posts as well. But to keep people from mentioning him will kill the whole "word of mouth" effect.

 

[turbo87limited]

I really do not want to sound stupid here. But the way I read Bruce's post on this particular ban, is that if we even mention one of this mans products, or any mention of him at all, it will be deleted and we will be banned! As you all know I own a couple of turbo cars, and use many of MPE's product. I guess if I install a new piece, designed and built by him, on my car, and it really helps it out, I cannot tell you about it. I really enjoy this board, and do not want to be banned, but I believe that we should be able to mention products or services that we have received that have benefitted our cars. Just my opinion.
Bubba Nicholson

 

[Nick Micale]

I am very perplexd after reading above posts by Turbomike, Intercooler, John Larkin and GNvair.

Most of what was said in your posts is old business, that is, it was done before Bruce took over the board and is not applicable to how it has been operated the past few weeks.

I have SPECIFICALLY stated if there is a problem with ANY vendor, post it if you like. Just do it in a mature, accurate manner with no offensive bashing or name calling. [This we will not tolerate in ANY post.] The truth is not being repressed. We do not censor posts or delete threads without good cause and letting people know first hand. And this VERY seldom is necessary.

The Meese situation is an issue we have dealt with due to past history and current discussions among ourselves and Keith. The decision made in his case was in his best interest, as well as the board's.

I was here when Mike Licht started the board and have been in contact with him since. I feel we definately are following his initial philophsy in presently managing the board. Mike was a vendor and still is, how does this "bias" the board?

As far as vendors moderating a tech forum, who is better qualified? What are they going to do wrong that offends you Jesse? By the way, we don't care if you go to Turbobuicks.com. I personally know Mike and Bill and think they are great guys. We admit, our boards are different and that is fine, should be that way.

We are NOT here to moderate your ideas, thoughts or having fun. We just like to have it done in a mature, professional-type manner. Yes, vendor advertising is here, and it helps defray part of the enormous cost to keeping the servers going.

Most of the comments you guys have made are not accurate in that they do not apply to the manner in which we are trying to direct the board. In 6 months or so, with some history of what we have done, then make these comments if appropiate. I seriously doubt that they will be.

Oh, as far as "good guy/bad guy" list, we do not see the current need for one if there is open discussion about the vendors. We can make that call later if needed.

 

[striker_29]

Originally posted by turbo87limited
I really do not want to sound stupid here. But the way I read Bruce's post on this particular ban, is that if we even mention one of this mans products, or any mention of him at all, it will be deleted and we will be banned! As you all know I own a couple of turbo cars, and use many of MPE's product. I guess if I install a new piece, designed and built by him, on my car, and it really helps it out, I cannot tell you about it. I really enjoy this board, and do not want to be banned, but I believe that we should be able to mention products or services that we have received that have benefitted our cars. Just my opinion.
Bubba Nicholson

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by turbo87limited
I.... But the way I read Bruce's post on this particular ban, is that if we even mention one of this mans products, or any mention of him at all, it will be deleted and we will be banned! As you all know I own a couple of turbo cars, and use many of MPE's product. I guess if I install a new piece, designed and built by him, on my car, and it really helps it out, I cannot tell you about it. I really enjoy this board, and do not want to be banned, but I believe that we should be able to mention products or services that we have received that have benefitted our cars. Just my opinion.
Bubba Nicholson

It was actually my post that said that.

Your are correct, if you go to "Tech" and give your results of his product, it will be welcomed. Any reference of others commenting "where is my part ordered 3 months ago", or similar non-tech posts in the thread WILL be deleted.

I have said before, our main goal is to exchange information and we will do not want a tech subject to deteriate into a "bashing".

If this does not seem fair, please let me know what would be?