Biggest Brakes I can use with 16" gta wheels?

[scot w.]

At the line I can hold around 7 lbs of boost with my set up which is perfectly fine for me and my limited Dragstrip time the car see's. With regular street tires (no drag radials or anything) I can cut 1.80 sixty foot times.

 

[novaderrik]

This is getting silly............

With all due respect, Your honestly questioning an OEM brake vs BAER brake which one stops better repeatedly? I know for a fact which one I will put my money on! I have them on my personal car and I have personally tested them on Speed/Stop challenges year after year to know just how well they stop, have you tested your LS brakes on a brake course? The proof is on the pavement so I would like to welcome you to the 2014 Buick GS Nationals Autocross this year in Bowling Green, KY to compete with me in the BAER brake Speed/Stop challenge to "Actually" see which stops better & quicker! I will even pay for your entry fee to the autocross hows that?

The LS rotors come in both sizes to be honest! and the 11" ones are a stock replacement on the 2002 Camaro, I am well aware of the 12'' rotors that are available.

Rotors and Pads from a local parts store isn't that big of a deal to be completely honest with ya, as if people with these cars are going to wear down the pads and screw up their rotors so bad without prior notice they have to drive into a local parts store to due a brake job while on the power tour or something. Plus for your information BAER brakes DOES use pads that can be bought at your local parts store!

Due to the SS4's size and piston area (1.75" pistons) it has a huge amount of clamping force (and because the little caliper is so rigid for what it is) it works great in drag racing too. This is the same caliper design they have on RPM's 3000hp Mustang, Dusty Bradfords 2400hp Regal, and Steve Morris's Boost Master Wagon. These cars have done in excess of 160 mph in the 8th mile.

yes, it is getting silly. we are having different conversations. i live in a world where cost matters, and being able to easily fix stuff that breaks at random times is kind of important- calipers seize, rotors get damaged, etc.. also, i'm talking about the 16" wheels that the OP was asking about- more brakes doesn't do a damn bit of good if you can't get tires that can turn that braking force into negative G's. then you have to factor in what the car will be used for- a daily driver that very rarely ever utilizes the brakes to their max capabilities doesn't need 4 or 6 pistons and pads that cost $100 or more a set and wear out faster than "lesser" pads when used in daily driver duty.

oem parts have proven "good enough" for a lot of people for a lot of different things- even the occasional autocross or road course foray.

i know you have parts to sell and i know that your car is amazing, but throwing a couple of month's wages at the biggest and baddest brake parts and lightweight wheels with sticky rubber that you can find isn't necessarily the answer to everyone's question.

also, no F body built after 97 came with less than 12" rotors... the 93-97 cars had smaller front brakes than the 98-02 cars- they all got the same front brakes, regardless of engine, trans, and suspension options... the lower end cars did have drums in the rear, but certain suspension packages got the 12" rear discs regardless of engine or trans.. if you have a catalog that shows otherwise, it is wrong.

 

[Hot Air]

Launching at strip...I have older Baer rear disk brake and had vacuum booster. I could not hold the car on the line under boost. Switched back to hydroboost and could hold car on the line. Why? Well, hydroboost builds much more brake pressure than vacuun system. Having said that, I can tell you that vacuum booster was fine everywhere else! But, I do love the hydroboost. It clears up some room under hood and you already have the powersteering pump needed to power the hydroboost so why not?
Conrad

 

[scot w.]

yes, it is getting silly. we are having different conversations. i live in a world where cost matters, and being able to easily fix stuff that breaks at random times is kind of important- calipers seize, rotors get damaged, etc.. also, i'm talking about the 16" wheels that the OP was asking about- more brakes doesn't do a damn bit of good if you can't get tires that can turn that braking force into negative G's. then you have to factor in what the car will be used for.

Well the OP "Asked" for the largest brakes for a 16" wheel, you came in and posted your "Opinion" and so did I then you questioned me, I answered and that is why were are here right now! Not everyone has the means or fabrication skills either to instal the LS bakes properly and not all people live in a world where cost matters! Some tend to leave all that important info out of threads when posting replies, some actually like a completely bolt-on brake system instead.. I just post the Options and do my best to get them the best price I can!

a daily driver that very rarely ever utilizes the brakes to their max capabilities doesn't need 4 or 6 pistons and pads that cost $100 or more a set and wear out faster than "lesser" pads when used in daily driver duty.

Correcting more false information.... BAER SS4 replacement pads DO NOT cost $100 or more! Try $60.00 (Only $4.01 more than the LS Duralast Gold SD/Brake Pads - Front #DG749SD)
and when you get into the 6-piston BAER brakes you can buy them at your local parts store too as the c5-c6 brake pads! Here is something right from BAER website "Uses the same pad as the C5 (1997 - 2004) and C6 (2005 - 2012) Corvette for easy, cost effective pad replacement".
Where in the world did you get the notion that the BAER pads wear out faster than the "Lesser" pads when used in daily driver duty? Please answer that cause I would like to know! I have auto-crossed and daily driven my car now going on 4 years with the same pads!

i know you have parts to sell and i know that your car is amazing, but throwing a couple of month's wages at the biggest and baddest brake parts and lightweight wheels with sticky rubber that you can find isn't necessarily the answer to everyone's question.

Neither is spending day's & day's of fabricating another OEM brake system the answer to everyone's question!
Most importantly I built my car for it's intended use and having those nice brakes is a Plus when it comes to the safety of stopping under emergency conditions in daily driver duty. Kind of the same thing all these people do with their GN who drag race, they throw a couple months or half a year wages into a engine to make it scream down the track...

 

[bishir]

For years some GN owners have used the ol' hold the emergency brake trick to build boost at the line. It's not a great thing for the drum backing plates, but I can tell you this after installing my rear Baer SS4 brakes: The backing plates are much beefer and you'll now have 4 3/8 bolts holding the plate to the axle tube. I'm betting the ol' hold the emergency brake trick would work pretty well with these though I haven't tried it..

Cost is a MAJOR consideration for me as well. For (ME) the cost of getting the kit was worth it because I tend to be one of those people who have to drive to the parts store 4 or 5 times when working on a project and the f-body brake swap looked like I'd be making a trip or two to the salvage yard, to the parts store a few times, and then the hardware store. I have such little time these days for projects it's better spent to buy a kit I know is complete. I didn't do the math, but it would be interesting to see what the entire LS1 swap would cost (using new parts) including powdercoating of the calipers, machining costs, and steel braided brake lines. That would make a more fair comparison. Then how a few stop challenges and 'break' out the measuring tape. That article would write itself... (you're welcome GM HiTech!)

Back to cost: I'm 35. I would not have considered spending this much on brakes (add to that suspension) when I was younger. I didn't have the funds, and it wasn't until later that I found the way a car handles and stops is just as enjoyable to me as how fast it goes. So if your original premise is to build a self described 'half-assed" pro-touring car then I think the F-body brake swap is your best bet. That sounds like it's putting down the f-body brakes, but it really is a nice swap. I would never say they're 'just as good' as Baer brakes, but for your purposes it sounds like Baer brakes may be overkill.

 

[novaderrik]

Well the OP "Asked" for the largest brakes for a 16" wheel, you came in and posted your "Opinion" and so did I then you questioned me, I answered and that is why were are here right now! Not everyone has the means or fabrication skills either to instal the LS bakes properly and not all people live in a world where cost matters! Some tend to leave all that important info out of threads when posting replies, some actually like a completely bolt-on brake system instead.. I just post the Options and do my best to get them the best price I can!

Correcting more false information.... BAER SS4 replacement pads DO NOT cost $100 or more! Try $60.00 (Only $4.01 more than the LS Duralast Gold SD/Brake Pads - Front #DG749SD)
and when you get into the 6-piston BAER brakes you can buy them at your local parts store too as the c5-c6 brake pads! Here is something right from BAER website "Uses the same pad as the C5 (1997 - 2004) and C6 (2005 - 2012) Corvette for easy, cost effective pad replacement".
Where in the world did you get the notion that the BAER pads wear out faster than the "Lesser" pads when used in daily driver duty? Please answer that cause I would like to know! I have auto-crossed and daily driven my car now going on 4 years with the same pads!



Neither is spending day's & day's of fabricating another OEM brake system the answer to everyone's question!
Most importantly I built my car for it's intended use and having those nice brakes is a Plus when it comes to the safety of stopping under emergency conditions in daily driver duty. Kind of the same thing all these people do with their GN who drag race, they throw a couple months or half a year wages into a engine to make it scream down the track...

see.. we're still having a different conversation... i figured that since you have your street legal race car brakes on your street legal race car, that you'd want to be using the expensive race car brake pads on it. so you got me on the brake pads..

regarding "spending days and days" of fabrication: i spent a grand total of about 2 hours modifying the spindles, turning down the rotors into hubs, mocking things up, and making the brackets to mount my LS1 F body brakes on my Camaro. there was a few trips to parts stores, but that was all in the planning stages and done with by the time i started cutting and grinding.. yeah, i used a Bridgeport and a lathe for some things because i had access to it at work- but that realistically only saved maybe a couple of hours.

i realize that it's in your best interest to play up how hard it is to drill and tap a few holes and cut off some extra material in order to push business to you, but honestly it's not that hard to do- even with crude tools. and you know that..

if the money tree bears fruit this year, i'll do the LS1 swap on the Regal without the special tools and post up a thread here with step by step pics and details like i did with the Camaro..

 

[scot w.]

see.. we're still having a different conversation... i figured that since you have your street legal race car brakes on your street legal race car, that you'd want to be using the expensive race car brake pads on it. so you got me on the brake pads..

regarding "spending days and days" of fabrication: i spent a grand total of about 2 hours modifying the spindles, turning down the rotors into hubs, mocking things up, and making the brackets to mount my LS1 F body brakes on my Camaro. there was a few trips to parts stores, but that was all in the planning stages and done with by the time i started cutting and grinding.. yeah, i used a Bridgeport and a lathe for some things because i had access to it at work- but that realistically only saved maybe a couple of hours.

i realize that it's in your best interest to play up how hard it is to drill and tap a few holes and cut off some extra material in order to push business to you, but honestly it's not that hard to do- even with crude tools. and you know that..

if the money tree bears fruit this year, i'll do the LS1 swap on the Regal without the special tools and post up a thread here with step by step pics and details like i did with the Camaro..

Look I don't know what your problem is with me but it's getting out of hand....

All I did was post up that BAER brakes WILL FIT his 16" GTA wheels (Like he asked) and to call us if he was interested, then HE asked some questions and I replied to HIM, then you come back with your "Objectively" remark so I posted some comparisons for you and you have been taking digs at me , my business and my car ever since..

I do Not play up how hard it is to due the LS swap just to push parts cause I know first hand what is involved to do that swap, and it's Way more than just drilling & tapping some holes "And you know that"!!

I didn't care one bit if he did the LS swap or bought brakes from me or summit or Jegg's, it don't bother me and if you actually knew me you would know that, and that I discuss all kinds of options with my customers so they can make a sound decision for themselves on what they to do....

 

[coach]

see.. we're still having a different conversation... i figured that since you have your street legal race car brakes on your street legal race car, that you'd want to be using the expensive race car brake pads on it. so you got me on the brake pads..

regarding "spending days and days" of fabrication: i spent a grand total of about 2 hours modifying the spindles, turning down the rotors into hubs, mocking things up, and making the brackets to mount my LS1 F body brakes on my Camaro. there was a few trips to parts stores, but that was all in the planning stages and done with by the time i started cutting and grinding.. yeah, i used a Bridgeport and a lathe for some things because i had access to it at work- but that realistically only saved maybe a couple of hours.

i realize that it's in your best interest to play up how hard it is to drill and tap a few holes and cut off some extra material in order to push business to you, but honestly it's not that hard to do- even with crude tools. and you know that..

if the money tree bears fruit this year, i'll do the LS1 swap on the Regal without the special tools and post up a thread here with step by step pics and details like i did with the Camaro..

What in the F&$k are you talking about??? Street legal racecars and whatever??? The questions being asked and debated are totally stupid.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON IN BAER BRAKES TO ANY FACTORY GM BRAKES EVER MADE....NOW OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW. The material used by Baer is totally superior in every way.
GM can't compete in that market.
The other thing in doing ANY swap is ...NO member here wants to have to modify ANYTHING ever!!! I posted how to make a flat plate so your frame brace bars will clear a PTE SLIC, and it was too much fabrication for most. I made 4 plates and ship them to the guys. We're talking a 3x5 inch rectangle of 1/8th thick steel with 4 drilled holes!!! Do you really think these guys are going to start wandering out into boneyards, and grabbing used parts...then modifying pieces off there own car...then manufacturing brackets so it all fits...NOPE...NOTTA CHANCE IN HELL. They don't have to buy the top dollar parts if they don't want to, they can upgrade with direct bolt on parts until they are satisfied with performance.
I'm not dropping $$$ on Baer brakes. I'm doing the caliper swap and adding huge Ford drums to the rear when I add the Ford bearing ends to my new rear housing.
Point is...your trying to win and un-winnable argument. There will never be a day when any GM brake system can hold the jock of even a budget level Baer system...no way...no how.

 

[turbotroy]

What in the F&$k are you talking about??? Street legal racecars and whatever??? The questions being asked and debated are totally stupid.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON IN BAER BRAKES TO ANY FACTORY GM BRAKES EVER MADE....NOW OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW. The material used by Baer is totally superior in every way.
GM can't compete in that market.
The other thing in doing ANY swap is ...NO member here wants to have to modify ANYTHING ever!!! I posted how to make a flat plate so your frame brace bars will clear a PTE SLIC, and it was too much fabrication for most. I made 4 plates and ship them to the guys. We're talking a 3x5 inch rectangle of 1/8th thick steel with 4 drilled holes!!! Do you really think these guys are going to start wandering out into boneyards, and grabbing used parts...then modifying pieces off there own car...then manufacturing brackets so it all fits...NOPE...NOTTA CHANCE IN HELL. They don't have to buy the top dollar parts if they don't want to, they can upgrade with direct bolt on parts until they are satisfied with performance.
I'm not dropping $$$ on Baer brakes. I'm doing the caliper swap and adding huge Ford drums to the rear when I add the Ford bearing ends to my new rear housing.
Point is...your trying to win and un-winnable argument. There will never be a day when any GM brake system can hold the jock of even a budget level Baer system...no way...no how.

Hi Coach, having a bad day? If you think my question was that stupid, why are you replying? I'll bet Lamborgini brakes are probably better then Baer's, but what is the price point. Re read my original question. Or don't. All your reply did was REALLY add gas to the fire of what is turning into a pissing match. I also take exception to your statement that "not one of these guys are going to fabricate anything, etc". I have been a hot rodder ALL my life not to mention a journey metal tradesman and pipefitter almost as long, so sir, you are not the only guy on the board that can fab anything. Yours is just prettier then most because your boss owns a jillion $$ play toy for you to do it on.
I have admired the things you have fabbed and photo'd, even though some of the "holier then thou" attitude has left a little to be desired. I have never called you on that for 2 reasons. 1- There is no way to tell what someone's "tone" of there comments are 2- I've had no reason to-until you come on MY thread and shit all over it!
To everyone else that responded, thanks for the ideas. They gave me lots of food for thought and different approaches- which is why I posted in the first place. After researching different ways of doing it and associated costs, my thoughts are if I stay with the GTA wheels, the ls1 brakes will probably be fine as the tire selection for 16's is rather limited. If I go to 18's, I can have tires to match suspension and brake upgrades. Thanks All for your input and Mods you can close this if you like before it rages to high Cheers Y'all

 

[cruzn57]

was your coffee to strong Troy? LOL
(applause for telling it like it is! )

 

[turbotroy]

was your coffee to strong Troy? LOL
(applause for telling it like it is! )

Hi Lee! How ya doin? I thought that this was a simple question and the "lively exchanges" were entertaining but educational. Until now.
I'm just into the next evolution of this car. Gotta Lou engine, a Nick trans, now need to make it stop and handle. Maybe one day I'll even paint it!

 

[scot w.]

Paint is the last thing for my car as well, makes no sense to paint it when I'm throwing it around auto-x courses all the time so it will be the last thing ever done...

I have to agree that this thread took a turn for the worse and I personally apologize to you for muddying up your thread. I am not one to just sit back and let misinformation be spewed for people to read and get the wrong impression so I tend to correct it... I'm done here!

 

[coach]

Hi Coach, having a bad day? If you think my question was that stupid, why are you replying? I'll bet Lamborgini brakes are probably better then Baer's, but what is the price point. Re read my original question. Or don't. All your reply did was REALLY add gas to the fire of what is turning into a pissing match. I also take exception to your statement that "not one of these guys are going to fabricate anything, etc". I have been a hot rodder ALL my life not to mention a journey metal tradesman and pipefitter almost as long, so sir, you are not the only guy on the board that can fab anything. Yours is just prettier then most because your boss owns a jillion $$ play toy for you to do it on.
I have admired the things you have fabbed and photo'd, even though some of the "holier then thou" attitude has left a little to be desired. I have never called you on that for 2 reasons. 1- There is no way to tell what someone's "tone" of there comments are 2- I've had no reason to-until you come on MY thread and shit all over it!
To everyone else that responded, thanks for the ideas. They gave me lots of food for thought and different approaches- which is why I posted in the first place. After researching different ways of doing it and associated costs, my thoughts are if I stay with the GTA wheels, the ls1 brakes will probably be fine as the tire selection for 16's is rather limited. If I go to 18's, I can have tires to match suspension and brake upgrades. Thanks All for your input and Mods you can close this if you like before it rages to high Cheers Y'all

Sorry Troy,
I wasnt referring to you. I was talking about the comments between Scot and Nova. You asked a perfectly reasonable question, and have had your thread turned into a debate between using boneyard and homemade parts vs. the best aftermarket brake manufacturer on the planet....including Lamborghini. Dont take my comments directed to you...they werent aimed at you. In my opinion...your thread was turned into exactly that...a pissing contest. Where did I direct any comment toward you? Never did. I posted based on my expierences...99% of the guys here, do not want to have to fab up or modify any part of any kind. I never made any statement saying "YOU" were not capable, nor would be interested....my intent was aimed toward the 100's of other guys who will read this long after you have made your choice and are finished with your project. Dont know why you felt I was talking to you...I quoted Nova...
Where in the hell is the "holier then thou" attitude in my fabbed parts showed up? Call me if you want to really know me....I never mean to come off that way. I make parts for several guys who PM me all the time....they dont feel this way. They simply ask...

Sorry

 

[turbotroy]

Hey Coach and Scott, thanks for the replies! Coach, kinda took it the way I read it with the question and answers being stupid and then the stuff about nobody fabs here.
Scott, have more questions about the coil over set-up, but like I said in the pm, gotta figure out wheels first.
All of ya have a good day and no harm, no foul. Thanks for the input!
Troy

 

[turbotroy]

Think I'll start a new post (fight) Who makes the most cost effective 18"x 9.5/10 wheels? No Bling Required

 

[coach]

Hey Coach and Scott, thanks for the replies! Coach, kinda took it the way I read it with the question and answers being stupid and then the stuff about nobody fabs here.
Scott, have more questions about the coil over set-up, but like I said in the pm, gotta figure out wheels first.
All of ya have a good day and no harm, no foul. Thanks for the input!
Troy

No worries...I've been yelled at before and will be again. I'm not here to be everybody's favorite...but I always try to give accurate information. Trying to compare aftermarket parts that are engineered to be superior in their field vs. parts that manufactured for mass production was a moot point. Are the LS brakes better then our antiquated 80's brakes...yep. No arguing there, but trying to argue the point with a guy who not only sells, but uses the product to its absolute fullest, was too much to tolerate. Asking questions from all directions around the topic wasn't going to change Scot's answers.
Guys will read this thread for years. Guys who are less mechanically inclined will be very confused by some of the debate...that was not right. It should be good accurate information.
Good luck in your choice. I'm going to run the SSBC calipers with some drilled and slotted rotors. Have you checked those out?