cam suggestions???

[Bill_Ritter]

I'm going to buy a cam, and I'm looking for some feedback.

My car is a bone stock long block with Lt-1 valve springs, te-67, 60's, 3400 stall bradco, and supporting mods. I'm running between 5100-5300 RPM's down the track and am out of the stock cams power range. I was looking at the 208/.464 cams but don't know if this is too aggressive for my setup.

I don't want to go roller, and hydraulic is a must since I drive the car a lot on the street. What do you guys suggest?

Thanks!

 

[87action]

camshaft

keep the duration around 210-212, you'll be fine. No need to rev a stock shortblock past 5300. Just my opinion

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Yeah, I'm not looking to Rev it past what its doing now, just looking to have it make power in that range

 

[bison]

A 212 roller with 1.55 rockers would be nice. A 212 flat with 1.65 rockers would run about the same as long as you had enough spring. The thread I had in the time slip forum has an engine that peaks in that range. It's a low lift 212 duration cam with 1.65 rockers and less than .500 lift. You would probably get more out of the combo with a restall the way it it running now. If you had a flash stall around 4500 at full boost it would really crank it out.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Are lt-1's enough spring? If not, what is? (Lb rating, or part #)


Thanks for the help!

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Just read your time slips/ combo post. There's a lot of good info in there! Thanks!

 

[KevinB]

I was there with bill at the track. Car is only running 113 MPH with 67 mm turbo at 30 psi on alky with about 21 degrees of timing in 3rd, 22 in 1st and 2nd. Air fuel ratio is at 11.1 going down the track with just a hint of knock (3 degree spike for a split second at 2-3 shift.) The tune is right on but the car never goes under 5k the entire run. Can barely see the shifts on his data logs. If I remember right, it shifts around 5400 and drops to like 5100. I suggested either sending converter back to be tightened or do a head and cam swap. Its a 60k mile unopened long block right now.

Bill we should try that converter in my car....just joking...I've already broke one loaner this year

 

[turbofabricator]

Why in the world are you dead set against a roller cam? ALL new cars come with one. If you want power here is how to do it: hydraulic roller cam (212-214) and port your heads. Anything else........just leave it alone and be happy with your car. If you want to make power.......QUIT trying to convince yourself that a flat tappet cam is a good choice . If you want to make power you MUST move air. Its a mathematical equation. And that math can't be tricked. You can wear a parachute, but you're still gonna hit the ground. . If you are racing your car, install the correct parts. If you are budget limited, port your heads yourself, and install a roller cam. ( I will gladley give you pointers on how to do it for cheap) If you can't afford a roller and ported heads......keep what you have and race it consistantly. Fast doesn't win, consistancy does.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Why in the world are you dead set against a roller cam? ALL new cars come with one. If you want power here is how to do it: hydraulic roller cam (212-214) and port your heads. Anything else........just leave it alone and be happy with your car. If you want to make power.......QUIT trying to convince yourself that a flat tappet cam is a good choice . If you want to make power you MUST move air. Its a mathematical equation. And that math can't be tricked. You can wear a parachute, but you're still gonna hit the ground. . If you are racing your car, install the correct parts. If you are budget limited, port your heads yourself, and install a roller cam. ( I will gladley give you pointers on how to do it for cheap) If you can't afford a roller and ported heads......keep what you have and race it consistantly. Fast doesn't win, consistancy does.

I'm not sure why you seem so irritated in your post, maybe its just me reading it wrong.

I'm not dead set against roller cams, never said I was, just said that I dont want to do it (for financial reasons) I cant afford the extra $600 for a roller setup. And if your seriously implying that a flat tappet cam cant make power, well thats just silly. You know, there was a time when cars didnt "come with roller cams from the factory"...

And I never even mentioned that I wanted to put a set of ported heads on my car, or wanted to know how to port any. I have a stock, unopened, factory head gasket long block and I'm perfectly happy with it the way it is.

My original post stated that I am trying to get the most power out of the current combo that I have. I can either:

A.) get a cam to allow the motor to be more efficient at a slightly higher RPM range (that I'm currently running)

or

B.) back peddal my combo and tighten up the converter to bring it down to a more suitable RPM range for efficiently making power with the stock cam.


It was a simple question, I can either spend time removing/installing the converter and sending it out to be re-stalled..... OR I can possibly spend the same amount of time just installing a cam (which I planned on doing down the road eventually anyway)

The cam seemed like the more sensible aproach to me. But hey, I'm just some dummy asking for advice on a forum WTF do I know, Right? I didnt think it was a big deal that was going to trigger a rant from someone I dont know.

 

[jasjamz]

Don't take it the wrong way but we have seen this flat tappet cam swap cause a lot of problems for people. Can you post the complete timeslip?

 

[Bill_Ritter]

absolutely. the times were run on a completely unprepped track for our local "street racing " night, so I know the 60' should be better.

60'...2.068
330...5.396
1/8...8.111
MPH...90.90
1000...10.436
1/4...12.418
MPH...113.98

The car was between 5000-5300 from the top of first till I crossed the line. 30.3# of boost in 3rd with a 3 degree blip of knock at 2-3 shift, knock free the rest of the run. 21-23 degrees of timing, on pump gas and Alky. A/f ratio was around 10.8- 11.1 the whole run.

 

[KevinB]

I'll call you in a little bit, but the more I think about it, you are going to have to pull the converter and send it out. There isn't anything left in the tune with pump gas. Maybe we could turn the boost back and up the timing. You need to move the iat sensor to the upper plenum. I got the drill bit and npt tap to do that is you don't.

 

[turbofabricator]

Ya sorry if that came across confrontational. Not what I intended for sure. :smile: If the fianacial aspect is the reason for sticking with a flat tappet can then I understand. So, leave the stock cam in there, unless it's gone flat of course. With bolt on's we are running 11.3 with a factory original engine less valve springs and timing chain. So you have alot left in your engine combination. IF you need to replace the cam, I would suggest a 208/208 Comp can. There is some power to be had with your current combo by adjusting the lifter pre-load. From the factory it is excessive. Years ago we added a .032" shim under the rocker shafts and picked up THREE MPH. That was the cheapest 30 HP ever.
What Turbo are you running? We ran the 11.3 with a PT54. This pass happened just this weekend. Another local racer has run 10.8 engine un-opened engine. Work on your 60ft time.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

What Turbo are you running? We ran the 11.3 with a PT54. This pass happened just this weekend. Another local racer has run 10.8 engine un-opened engine. Work on your 60ft time.

I'm running a te-67 with 60's. I guess ill tighten up the converter and leave the stock cam alone, because a roller is definitely not in the budget right now. Kevin B is helping me at the track, so hopefully he can get it straightened out . My goal was to go 10.99 on the stock long block, but I'm a bit off LOL.

Ill check the pre load also , Thanks for the tip

 

[bison]

I doubt they will be able to tighten that converter that much without taking a bunch out of it down low

 

[KevinB]

I doubt they will be able to tighten that converter that much without taking a bunch out of it down low

That same converter has been pretty fast with similar setups. Its not their high dollar converter from what I know but it has worked before. I think its similar to the bradco I had I went 11.1 with with a totally stock long block. Its amazing how much these cars are effected by the converter. Probably will not be able to be as aggressive with the tune if he chooses to tighten it up.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Bill, good luck on your quest for that 10 sec et. A cam and head change would make it alot easier to get there but its not going to be easy on stock cam and heads. Your gonna need to lay down a good 60' with lots of boost! I will eventually make it there. Deren

 

[bison]

That same converter has been pretty fast with similar setups. Its not their high dollar converter from what I know but it has worked before. I think its similar to the bradco I had I went 11.1 with with a totally stock long block. Its amazing how much these cars are effected by the converter. Probably will not be able to be as aggressive with the tune if he chooses to tighten it up.

The way I look at it is the combo is off about 150whp from where it should be. Probably a combination of valve float and converter. The converter is just aggravating it. If the engine was making the power it should then the converter will get driven over even harder. It needs to sit around 4500-4600 most of the time and run a 29" or taller slick or pull rear gear and have a good transbrake launch to really crank it out. Even with stock heads/cam it should trap 122-123mph at that boost/timing.

 

[NCTURBOS]

The way I look at it is the combo is off about 150whp from where it should be. Probably a combination of valve float and converter. The converter is just aggravating it. If the engine was making the power it should then the converter will get driven over even harder. It needs to sit around 4500-4600 most of the time and run a 29" or taller slick or pull rear gear and have a good transbrake launch to really crank it out. Even with stock heads/cam it should trap 122-123mph at that boost/timing.

+1... Exact same thing I was thinking! The car is way down on power, and it isn't because you're not putting the boost to it, and you're saying the tune is good.

Every, and I mean every bolt-on car (using a quality & matched combination) should go 11.3's or quicker at 117mph or faster. And that is with an aggressive tune, but not a ridiculous tune!!

The torque converter would be the very first in line if it were me...


K.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm going to pull the converter this weekend and send it out. Hopefully that takes care of the majority of the problem.