My personal opinion is the Glock should only be for LEO who are properly trained in handling and using that particular weapon. It has no safety, a very light trigger pull and will shoot with the mag. out. Here in the northeast it is nice to know that there aren't guns on everyone and if you see a gun on someone (while on duty) they better be able to produce a badge, ID and weapons card. I personally don't like the idea of Joe Schmoe with no training walking around armed like Clint Eastwood. Just my humble opinion and I do not mean to stir a hornets nest.
considering buying a glock 23
- Thread starter datant69
- Start date
Wow, no disrespect towards LEO but, I know many non LEO people that are better with GLOCKS or any other weapon made than most LEO's...
That is a ridiculous statement. Most crimes are committed by CRIMINALS, it doesn't matter if they have a .22 single action...
I understand as a LEO you not liking it but as an AMERICAN in the times we live in I would rather have Joe Schome with a glock rather than a sling shot if the SHTF scenario ever happens... He may save your life one day, if he is not a criminal in the first place... If so I doubt he would have a legal weapon to start off with...
I would agree. We practice at the range as much or more than most LEOs do. I don't want to wait for an hour for a LEO to show up after someone commits a crime against me or my family. Proactive instead of reactive.
Most people have a distorted view that law abiding gun carrying citizens are Clint Eastwood shoot em up types with a gun belt and extra rounds on their hips.. On the contrary, most of the time you'd never know they were armed.
This just shows the difference between the mind washed and the people that have enough restraint to handle a weapon. The amazing thing is that a large portion of your area was part of the Revolutionary war and the Civil war. Your officials have convinced you that weapons aren't needed just like the British tried to do to the colonies. This is a sad thing to me.
I'm an EX MP and know how to handle many different weapons and my Colt 45 has a 3 lb trigger. I carry it at times when I'm wearing heavy clothes because it's a large side arm. I have shot competition with both long arms and side arms and know how to shoot. I was taught by my father to be safe and smart and not endanger someone by being stupid. Those of us that have and handle weapons on a regular basis know that knowledge is the key and the knowledge base in your area is limited to say the least. I'm sorry you feel the way you do but it does show a lack of knowledge to me.
i agree with us guys who don't want to be a victim
i'm not the type to not protect myself or family. regardless most CHL'er are normal citizens who wouldn't pull their gun unless it's a last draw. to each his or her own but your entitled to your opinion. i'm far from trigger happy but if it comes down to it i'm going protect my best interest. most people who commit crimes are scum anyway. i'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. i understand your point but still you never know how you'll react until your in the situation. for me i'm not going out like a chump.
i'm not the type to not protect myself or family. regardless most CHL'er are normal citizens who wouldn't pull their gun unless it's a last draw. to each his or her own but your entitled to your opinion. i'm far from trigger happy but if it comes down to it i'm going protect my best interest. most people who commit crimes are scum anyway. i'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. i understand your point but still you never know how you'll react until your in the situation. for me i'm not going out like a chump.
IT is certainly not a lack of knowledge on my part or any other cop who works in the north. We are trained with several different types of weapons and here in NJ we must qualify twice a year with all three weapons we use in a daytime scenario as well as night fire.
The South is a different world IMO when it comes to gun control. Here in the Tri State area with exception of rural PA the gun laws are extremely strict. Hell until a few years ago we LEO's could NOT pass state lines with an off duty until George W. passed new legislature. I like knowing that if I'm approaching a vehicle or individual here in Jersey that most likely the average citizen is NOT armed and allows COPS to do their jobs. It does not take one hour for police to arrive on the scene that is absurd accusation. At least not up here with us Northerners
And to bring up the Revolutionary War is a tad bit of an embellishment. I'm just telling you the perspective of a LEO here in the North how diverse and different the laws are from region to region and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm sure someone will be outraged by my opinion.
The South is a different world IMO when it comes to gun control. Here in the Tri State area with exception of rural PA the gun laws are extremely strict. Hell until a few years ago we LEO's could NOT pass state lines with an off duty until George W. passed new legislature. I like knowing that if I'm approaching a vehicle or individual here in Jersey that most likely the average citizen is NOT armed and allows COPS to do their jobs. It does not take one hour for police to arrive on the scene that is absurd accusation. At least not up here with us Northerners
And to bring up the Revolutionary War is a tad bit of an embellishment. I'm just telling you the perspective of a LEO here in the North how diverse and different the laws are from region to region and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm sure someone will be outraged by my opinion. Pointless "feel goody" thought... The average "law abiding" citizen, with a CWP, isn't going to use it on you in the first place, nor try to "get in your way" if you're on scene.
The criminal who just knocked over a 7-11, that U pulled over for speeding.. WILL try to use it on you... .. but h3ll, they never cared about what LEO's think in the first place.
cops don't have a worry with many chl holders
i don't know why a cop would be so jumpy if he found out a guy had a CHL and gun. if i ran into a situation where a cop needed help and backup wasn't available immediately. i would make sure or try to help any way i could. if for some reason i had to get arrested and was carrying my gun, i wouldn't bother giving them any problems. why add charges to something when you can go with them take care of whatever it is and be on your way. last thing a cop should be worried about is a CHL holder.
i don't know why a cop would be so jumpy if he found out a guy had a CHL and gun. if i ran into a situation where a cop needed help and backup wasn't available immediately. i would make sure or try to help any way i could. if for some reason i had to get arrested and was carrying my gun, i wouldn't bother giving them any problems. why add charges to something when you can go with them take care of whatever it is and be on your way. last thing a cop should be worried about is a CHL holder.
gunslinger
Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
In New Hampshire all you have to do is show proof of residency, fill out a half of a sheet of paper stating that it's you Constitutional Right to carry concealed, pay your ten bucks, wait a week and a half, go to the police station and pick up your permit. I carry all the time, and no one would ever know by looking at me. I don't even have to carry my permit with me, all of the information is attached to my DL.
I know that you're a LEO, and I'm not directing this at you personally, but I think that someone who is willing to go through the trouble of legally obtaining a CCW permit is probably more skilled with the weapon that they choose to carry that your average officer that only shoots at the range two or three times a year. The ceiling in the indoor range at the gun club my father belongs to is proof, after the local PD had a rapid fire competition. There were holes everywhere (including the ceiling) but the targets.
I know some of you know but I don't think some of you have any idea what its like to qualify with strategical shooting twice a year. From shooting in the dark while kneeling and rolling to a weapons retention position. We have to shoot for our career if you don't qualify the state or municipality can let you go because it is a prerequisite for our positions. It's taken very seriously and I practice all year round as this is my living financially and God forbid if I have to use deadly force. Unless you in competitions I've noticed a lot of you think that LEO can't shoot and if you don't know what we have to do to qualify I would refrain from making those statements. The Police Training Comm. comes up with a course we must shoot with our handgun, then a diff. course for the rifle and finally a diff. course with shotgun all done in the day and night.
I don't have a problem with other's state's laws I just don't 100% agree with them. Someone who has never taken AT LEAST a course on weapon safety should never be allowed around a fire arm. I'm not going to start breaking out stats. about personal protection weapons who they are most likely to harm but please realize that 99% of the time drawing a weapon is a very big step that you have just taken. I can use Constructive Force on the use of Force Contin. while a ciitiz. drawing a weapon could lead to death with both parties. Weapon safety is key.
I don't have a problem with other's state's laws I just don't 100% agree with them. Someone who has never taken AT LEAST a course on weapon safety should never be allowed around a fire arm. I'm not going to start breaking out stats. about personal protection weapons who they are most likely to harm but please realize that 99% of the time drawing a weapon is a very big step that you have just taken. I can use Constructive Force on the use of Force Contin. while a ciitiz. drawing a weapon could lead to death with both parties. Weapon safety is key.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
OutSTANDing, that you know that. That is exactly correct. It's one of the main reasons the redcoats marched in lexington and concorde. And it was the armed citizen, that saved our asses too. And guess what... with little to no training too....hmmmmmm. Imagine dat....
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
Ok junior... "serious reason"? Ok then. Do you lock your doors at night? Do you lock your car when you leave it? Do you lock your house when you leave for work? Why? I want your answer to that.
And "aren't in law enforcement" eh? What about military? What about the military guys that have 3 deployments under their belt, carrying guns 24/7, with 3 MILLION times the training ANY law enforcement officer will EVER DREAM on getting, that get out of the service, and become civilians again? Can these guys carry guns? Is that ok? Are you sure? I think it's funny, that while standing in line at the local grocery store, you see a really young looking kid, with a buldge on his right hip. And you know it's a gun. And you look down, and shake your head, and think "why does this kid have a gun?" when in reality, this kid may actually have 17 years in service, and have been in special operations for quite a while, yet you still judge him, having no CLUE, he could have been in COUNTLESS firefights lol.
Not everyone, that's 'not in law enforcement' is capable of carrying a service sidearm responsibly. What if he wants to protect himself from thieves and muggers? What if he wants to protect his son, or girlfriend? Is that ok? Or do we have to be at the mercy of the police officer, 25 minutes away. Most of us will never use it. And that's what we're hoping on. But if someone intends on doing me harm, I have a way to protect myself.
In New Hampshire all you have to do is show proof of residency, fill out a half of a sheet of paper stating that it's you Constitutional Right to carry concealed, pay your ten bucks, wait a week and a half, go to the police station and pick up your permit. I carry all the time, and no one would ever know by looking at me. I don't even have to carry my permit with me, all of the information is attached to my DL.
I know that you're a LEO, and I'm not directing this at you personally, but I think that someone who is willing to go through the trouble of legally obtaining a CCW permit is probably more skilled with the weapon that they choose to carry that your average officer that only shoots at the range two or three times a year. The ceiling in the indoor range at the gun club my father belongs to is proof, after the local PD had a rapid fire competition. There were holes everywhere (including the ceiling) but the targets.
Now that's just funny.:biggrin: And I'm sorry to say it's mostly true.
Most LEO have no clue how to handle an automatic or even do a proper entry in a CQB situation. That was one of the advantages of military training. It teaches basics but without the re-enforcements like seeing a buddy shot because of an idiot that wasn't paying attention, it really doesn't sink in. A weapon of any kind isn't a toy but with proper training it is just what it was desinged to do. Protect or provide a deterent to someone that is doing wrong.I feel the need to correct you slightly on this. No formal military training. They grew up with firearms and were tought proper respect for weapons and people. That's one of the biggest issues here. With cartoons and idiots screaming that America is the source of all the illegal weapons in the world are idiots when countries like China has been caught sending automatics to the US and getting the weapons confiscated. Just check on the the US customs that are found as contraband. I remember one case of a ship loaded with automatic weapons intended for kalifonication gang members. This has to do with lack of respect for life as well as the need to dominate. Very sad that it's happening but this is where we are as a people. The fact that the Northern states mostly seem to want to dominate "the people" instead of following what the constitution says is scary and sad. We are headed toward a bigger devide between us and if it comes to a head it will be ugly to say the least.:frown:
I think WE HAVE A WINNER!!! DING, DING, DING!!! The government has trained us to do a job and now think we're not capable of handling ourselves with a weapon? Have you ever heard of the CMP program? It's the Civilian Markmanship Program sponsored by the government so you can participate in competitions on military style shooting and weapons! Started long ago and it teaches how to handle a weapon as well as a cheap way to to have some fun.:biggrin:
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
I bought my M1 carbine from them. At 419 dollars to my front door, I LAUGH, out loud, when the dummies buy milsurps for 800 bucks at gun and knife shows lol. And what training did the colonists have? And with what extra ammunition? Lol. They must have had 50 rounds extra max. They couldn't have had MUCH training. I myself don't call plinkin cans in the backyard 'training'. In the Army, that's fam fire. Familiarization fire. There was not a whole lot of training, compared to what the brits got. We were very poor in the early to mid 1700's. I doubt very much that 2 platoon sized element of "insurgents" got training that ever amounted to anything.
Nevertheless, we showed those red coats the real deal
Nevertheless, we showed those red coats the real deal
To get a CCWP you do have to take a shooting class and educational class, at least here in NC...
I don't think you realize alot of us were raised shooting guns and hunting all our lives. Both my kids under the age of 10 could probably qualify for standard shooting test...
Not everyone is from the hood and uses weapons for offense..
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
Strategical shooting? What exactly is that? lol. And I know that there are some officers that can shoot. But for the most part, they cannot. I have a LOT of police friends, and their pistol shooting skills are lackluster at best. I am APPALLED at how the dept. is ok with this. And the municipality can let you go for failing to qualify? Lol. Again, I've never seen that before. It's waiverable, trust me. None of my cop friends can shoot, and they're all still cops lol. And yes, you must take a safety course before you get a concealed pistol license. It's a prereq.
Though I do agree, with having to take some sort of course, before buying a firearm. I used to subscribe to the thought of "ANYone should be able to own ANYthing they want"... before I grew up. And slowly noticed that my neighbour did not. Now I'm goin on 37, and he's goin on 43, and he has the mind of a 20 year old. Literally. I'm pretty bold and brave, but this guy would flat out make me lose sleep every night, if he bought a firearm. And I'm not talkin about 'incoming mortar rounds' lose sleep. I'm talking like 'sleepin in the patrol base' type of lose sleep. I would probably sleep with my flak jacket and helmet on, if my neighbour got a hold of a firearm. So I do agree, that anyone, over the age of 16, that graduates a 1 or 2 day safety, proper storage, use, and law class, should be able to buy a firearm. Provided that the penalties for misuse, are VERY severe and heavy handed, AND, evenly applied. To EVERYone. ALL the time. You screw up. 15 year minimum sentence, non waiverable. You'll tend to think twice before havin a few beers out back, and showing your buddy your new shotgun, when it's still loaded.
Though I do agree, with having to take some sort of course, before buying a firearm. I used to subscribe to the thought of "ANYone should be able to own ANYthing they want"... before I grew up. And slowly noticed that my neighbour did not. Now I'm goin on 37, and he's goin on 43, and he has the mind of a 20 year old. Literally. I'm pretty bold and brave, but this guy would flat out make me lose sleep every night, if he bought a firearm. And I'm not talkin about 'incoming mortar rounds' lose sleep. I'm talking like 'sleepin in the patrol base' type of lose sleep. I would probably sleep with my flak jacket and helmet on, if my neighbour got a hold of a firearm. So I do agree, that anyone, over the age of 16, that graduates a 1 or 2 day safety, proper storage, use, and law class, should be able to buy a firearm. Provided that the penalties for misuse, are VERY severe and heavy handed, AND, evenly applied. To EVERYone. ALL the time. You screw up. 15 year minimum sentence, non waiverable. You'll tend to think twice before havin a few beers out back, and showing your buddy your new shotgun, when it's still loaded.
gunslinger
Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
+1
I got my first BB gun when I was 5 and was Trap shooting with a 12ga by the time I was 10. I won the Wisconsin high school class C state championship at the age of 12. From the time I was very young, I was taught proper firearm handling. I don't think that I am an exception, I think that most CCWP holders have a similar background.
I would never show my weapon, much less pull it out unless I intended to shoot to kill. It is a huge responsibility that I don't think that any CCWP holders take lightly.
gunslinger
Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
Most cities have physical requirements for their officers too, but I'll guarantee you that the 4 or 5 three hundred+ pound slobs on my town's force couldn't run more that 100 yards without having a heart attack. New Jersey might be different, but around here, the police force is pretty much a joke.
There will always be some who don't think civilians should carry a weapon. The intent of the CCW is for self defense not "chasing". The bottom line is I will decide if I'm going to comply with a armed criminal, or not, and it gives me a good feeling knowing that the guy next to me might be armed also if something goes down. enough law abiding citizens armed will give the knucklehead something to think about if he/they think about pulling any $hit.
I will say that the basic training class is next to insignificant and if you really want to have your best chances of staying alive in a situation you need to take your training to the next level. It is available if you look.
I will say that the basic training class is next to insignificant and if you really want to have your best chances of staying alive in a situation you need to take your training to the next level. It is available if you look.
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