Destroking - Facts or fiction

[Pronto]

That's a factor too. Some blocks are just cast weaker while others happen to be better. If you are lucky enough to have a well cast block it's potential would be higher.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

That's a factor too. Some blocks are just cast weaker while others happen to be better. If you are lucky enough to have a well cast block it's potential would be higher.

This is hard to hear when you happen to be the unlucky soul with the bum casting.

 

[Pronto]

Yes. Sonic testing would help determine if the bores are thick but if a there is a void or sand inclusion in an area the testing isn't done your screwed.

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

and all off the shelf parts.

He may have meant he purchased "all" of the off the shelf parts made for these engines.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Fastest 109 out there is a stock stroke and it's well into the 8's. Nothing exotic according to the owner.

he is not the only one and there is alot more going on then most think.

 

[Mr.Spool]

As of now, our only guess is that he breached the strength threshold of his blocks power tolerance.

if the afr is in check depending on the weight of the car and power it made there are a few ways that would be a for sure sign.not sure he is there yet.

 

[Mr.Spool]

t’s obvious the whole package, engine, suspension, transmission, front to back is well thought out and thoroughly tuned.

it is

 

[Mr.Spool]

f it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.

i bet most guys just dont have the sack for it lots of parts cars out there but you really need to be able to push hard and drive hard for the good passses inmo.

 

[Mr.Spool]

This is hard to hear when you happen to be the unlucky soul with the bum casting.

thats what a good builder should look for

 

[Pronto]

i bet most guys just dont have the sack for it lots of parts cars out there but you really need to be able to push hard and drive hard for the good passses inmo.

Not to mention the $$$$ needed. There's no such thing as a "budget" build to run 8s with a 109 block in a g body.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Not to mention the $$$$ needed. There's no such thing as a "budget" build to run 8s with a 109 block in a g body.

very true.these things are money pits or as a friend says a labor of love

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

if the afr is in check depending on the weight of the car and power it made there are a few ways that would be a for sure sign.not sure he is there yet.

He data logs often and had a few logs on pulls just before the break. Nothing seemed beyond the norm. But sometimes it's just gonna happen, I guess.

Unfortunately this happened in the Spring and he missed the Summer. He was teeter-toddered on going with a stage block for the come-back. But it turns out, all of his components and internals (asides from the valve train) are good. To him, it just seems to make more sense to get another 109.

I believe the the engine is finally being broken down and checked completely by the engine builder. There may be more information still left to come.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

thats what a good builder should look for

The engine was built by one of North-East's most reputable Buick builders. But I'm sure a detailed inspection of the new block will be insisted on with the next build.

Anyway. He is a good friend and a Buick die-hard. I was certain he would be back. And he will.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I truly think that once a person feels that their bottom end is "bullet proof" caps and/or girdle, the green light is on for test and tune. If our blocks would have came with 4 bolt mains from the factory, oh boy. I am glad that we have the capability to add a flat girdle to strengthen our bottom ends.

Which leads me to my next question. How effective are these strengthening techniques when building short stroke, small displacement, high RPM motors? What can be done about the top end? Lifter valley? Main webbing?

 

[Mr.Spool]

The engine was built by one of North-East's most reputable Buick builders. But I'm sure a detailed inspection of the new block will be insisted on with the next build.

it can happen.i personally have had good luck with the 109,and havent broken one that way.nobody likes downtime.

 

[Pronto]

I know of one that split in half. It was a 9 second build that ran for about 10 years with lots of runs. It was well tuned too. One day at the track it lost oil pressure like the one Joey mentioned. He was able to salvage just about everything too. Don't remember if it had a girdle. It went back together in another 109 block and ran well. It later got taken out by a bad trans.

 

[Jerryl]

I think everyone will agree that it requires a substantial amount of money to get and stay in the 8’s with a 109 regardless of stroke or rpm, and not everyone has the desire to go 8 – 9 - 10 seconds.

If you study the 109 block (like many of you have), it becomes clear where strengthening is needed. It would require some serious equipment to do it right, and unless you have access to that equipment or out to set a record, probably not worth it.

Lastly, there are many factors that determine max rpm on a specific short block. Once will make it to 8000, while another will only go 6500.

 

[rag231]

The best thing that we have going for us now is component reliablity. We have the greatest electronics and electronic guru ( tuners) on the planet, non cracking heads, strong cranks and rods. Our 109 might be getting in short supply.Now we just have to scrap the rule book and get out there and turn it up. Get rid of the restrictor plate ( the 3 bolt turbo), gap the plugs and run race gas, NOS, M1, alky, E85, E98, or whatever blends. Blow some heads gaskets. Make sure that your supporting components can handle it and go for it with whatever stroke and bore that you have. I don't think ( it may be subconcious tho ) that I have a desire to go eights with a 109, I would like to have the reliability and the comforting feel to run low nines regularly, to stay ahead of a few things running around on the streets. Running 9's came easy, I just followed a recipe and put in seat time. I was literally told what to do over the phone and slow DSL. The thought process was to go as fast as I could with what I had first before I started trying to upgrade. I bought a ton of stuff that I didn't need and never used like a PT72 and 72lb injectors. Back to stroking and destroking. If there was any components that I could have back it would have been the 3.0 and 3.750 stroke crank. It would have been interesting to see the difference of max effort purpose built racing engines.

 

[434nova]

The best thing that we have going for us now is component reliablity. We have the greatest electronics and electronic guru ( tuners) on the planet, non cracking heads, strong cranks and rods. Our 109 might be getting in short supply.Now we just have to scrap the rule book and get out there and turn it up. Get rid of the restrictor plate ( the 3 bolt turbo), gap the plugs and run race gas, NOS, M1, alky, E85, E98, or whatever blends. Blow some heads gaskets. Make sure that your supporting components can handle it and go for it with whatever stroke and bore that you have. I don't think ( it may be subconcious tho ) that I have a desire to go eights with a 109, I would like to have the reliability and the comforting feel to run low nines regularly, to stay ahead of a few things running around on the streets. Running 9's came easy, I just followed a recipe and put in seat time. I was literally told what to do over the phone and slow DSL. The thought process was to go as fast as I could with what I had first before I started trying to upgrade. I bought a ton of stuff that I didn't need and never used like a PT72 and 72lb injectors. Back to stroking and destroking. If there was any components that I could have back it would have been the 3.0 and 3.750 stroke crank. It would have been interesting to see the difference of max effort purpose built racing engines.

The 3 bolt turbo I doubt is a restriction when guys are making making 1000 hp with them.

 

[rag231]

Restriction in terms of exhaust housings. You are limited between a .69 to an .85 on your A/R ( using Garrett as an example). What separates XTSM and TSO? They are running the same block, heads, electronics.......the 3 bolt turbo.