Dual fed fuel rail setup

[murphster]

After playing around with my other cars for the past few months, the T Type is back together. I had issues leaning out the #1 cylinder and after some investigating my guess was that the inline fuel pressure regulator on the Champion fuel rail was giving me problems. I had upgraded from a single fuel pump to a double pumper but the problem was still there. I checked the flow of the injectors and they were fine.

I decided to upgrade to an external fuel pressure regulator setup while also dual feeding the fuel rails and upgrading the fuel line with plans to use the stock fuel line as the return line. I bought a driver's side Champion fuel rail setup for an external regulator, an external regulator, and teflon racing hose and fittings. I went with -8AN fuel line split into two -6AN lines feeding the rails from the rear. Paul (Pacecarta) installed the setup.

There is a Y block located under the car where the two -6AN lines meet. It was too tight under the coil pack to put the Y block there. The fuel filter is tucked in on the frame. Mounting the fuel pressure regulator on the Champion AC delete bracket I think gives it a nice clean look.

Take a look:

 

[murphster]

Also installed a Dedenbear CO2 setup for boost control at the same time. A little tight getting the bracket on since the bar is close to the body. I needed to go with a softer wastegate spring to help control the launches while the CO2 will now give me enough pressure to run whatever boost I want up top. When using he soft wastegate spring previously, I could only build 20lbs of boost up top. With the stiffer wastegate spring the minimum boost I could hold at the line was 12-13lbs with the electronic boost controller. The CO2 should help a lot.

 

[2QUICK2B6]

looks like a NASA space ship with all those gauges computers an gizmos

 

[HIboostGN]

murphster



The fuel rails you are running were they both bought from Champion and there for external regulator use? If so i need a pair!! I was going to buy a Holley billet fuel rail and make my own but if Champion has them already made to bolt on to a stock intake i am sold!! It looks like a stock intake on your car and not Champions upgrade one could you confirm? Thanks Jerry

 

[pacecarta]

his intake is a champion ported stocker . rails were champions for stock intake which come with fittings for install to stock fuel lines ,
murph called champion and they had a driver rail for external , but he could have just cut his original one down and threaded it

the passenger side rail is same as they sell and the driver side was swapped out using the mounting adapter and the -8 AN 45*crossover fitting from the old one .
murph ordered the fittings for the rail (-8AN oring to -6AN) through summit racing
the external regulator takes -10an oring inputs (has two) and has a bottom outlet similar to stock setup with a -6AN oring ,it also has an 1/8npt outlet port on side for a fuel gauage so you would need fittings for that or a small gauge could be screwed in

 

[HIboostGN]

Pacecarta,

Thanks that is what I wanted to hear about the fuel rails! I will now call Champion and order a set for my setup. That was a great heads up about the rest of the fuel setup. I knew that stuff but many might not have and would have got upset about needing more $$$ parts to run the rails. Also to
murphster for mentioning that the y-block wont fit under the coilpack area! HMM need to head out to the garage this morning and plan! I like the reg mounted to the bracket and since I have a similar setup I may copy that?? i think my alt is in the way though! THANKS !!! to both of you for the idea's and help !!!
Jerry

 

[pacecarta]

the y he got was a jegs shorty -8X -6(2)
the aero teflon makes it easier being that the -8An line is about the same diameter outside as the standard rubber lined -6. and the 6 is as thin as std -4 hose
i've seen some dual feed like you would see on a carb in that they come up to the rail and hit the first rail with a Tee then on to the other rail with a 90 , lots of room to do that but i didnt want to have the fuel flow favor one rail over the other ... i did it so both feeds to the rail and both feeds out of the rail use the same hose lengths and fittings so both sides should flow equally

for the outlet its a -6oring x -6an straight off the regulator and used -6AN hose with a 90 hose end at the lower end and used an earls -6an to female saginaw to attach to the stock feed line (no cutting the original line) which was now serves as the return to the tank , flipped the fuel filter around and used an adapter to reduce the 3/8 hose to 1/4" at the sender . with that setup was able to set regulator as low as 25psi with pumps on so return flow is not a problem

 

[murphster]

You might be able to get a y block to fit under the coil if you use the right fittings. We re-used the 45 degree fittings on the end of the Champion fuel rail in the back so there was already a lot of space taken up. The hoses would need to squeeze through the bracket and then spread out enough to go back on the Y block. They don't make a 45 degree o'ring teflon hose end so you need to have some adapters there (at least Aeroquip doesn't, and I only used their teflon fittings since I was using their teflon hose). Paul said it was much easier to just put the Y block underneath the car.

Didn't need the angled fittings on the front of the rail because the teflon hose is pretty flexible compared to regular braided fuel line.

 

[HIboostGN]

Thanks!!!

murphster ,

BOY WE THINK SO MUCH A LIKE !!! I like you and Paceseta! I am building a twin turbo road race car really. Well a open track car. I have ran dual pumps in the past both on a same time or you run into a fuel curve issue when 2ND pump turns on. And i did not want to have the #1 injector starve so i was going to order blank billet fuel rails from Holley and cut mine own and weld up some attachment brackets but since you have worked out most of the details HELL i can get to working now instead of designing! I swear i am headed out to the garage right after this and look at how to feed and return the fuel lines now! I have a single -6 to stock rail now but i may just go ahead and redo it in teflon hose since i ran my alky fuel cell tank in trunk to pump in teflon why not all fuel lines! By the way i opened my mouth and I will be driving this with 2 other guys from Bay Area Ca to the Nats next year! This will be our 3rd time driving out but haven't been since 94 Hope we can all meet and put faces to nick names. i do not know how to link post but there are pics of my motor that is going in in the tech area under twin turbo question.
Jerry gnmechanic@yahoo.com

 

[yullose]

Thanks for the ideas !

I'd like to switch mine over to a dual-feed setup soon too...

 

[murphster]

Actually, only the driver's side may present a problem with the fuel line under the coil pack, since it has to tuck in behind the connector. Buts its probably best to use the same fittings on both sides. A better setup than using the Champion angled adapters would probably be a -8AN male o'ring to a -6AN male fitting on the rail with a 45 degree teflon hose end for a clean look.

I'm using an Aeromotive A1000 regulator. You can get them in either -10AN or -6AN feed ports with a -6AN return. They don't come with the fittings and use o'ring fittings just like the Champion fuel rail. The return line comes out straight throught the bottom. Here are better pictures showing the regulator and the return line with a 90 degree hose end and a -6AN to saginaw fitting to attach to the stock fuel line to use as a return (a little blurry).

 

[NCTURBOS]

I'm anxious to see/hear about the 'new' performance of the car!! :biggrin: Anything new with the shortblock?


K.

 

[murphster]

I'm anxious to see/hear about the 'new' performance of the car!! :biggrin: Anything new with the shortblock?

A new piston.

If I can turn it up now, should turn some good numbers. I bought slicks for it too, but probably won't use them until the spring, as I've got to buy some 15x10 rims first. Combined with the CO2 and electronic boost controller, I should be able to get some killer launches. I've gotten 1.4 60fts, but it wasn't really hitting hard. Shooting for some 1.3s :smile: . Also trying some new things with the TT alky chip that should help the launches. Initial results looked good on my other car with a new chip.

 

[disco stu]

Wow. Sounds lime we are in the same boat. I burned #1 and am doing the same thing. Pump, alky, 22 psi, 1400 egt, etc. Car never showed any probs on the dyno or eighth mile but about the 1000 foot mark egt for 1 goes outta control and melts pistons.

 

[Squid4life]

Impressive setup!!!

 

[3.8vsix]

How did you attach the -8 line to the gas tank? Did you just slip it over the barb and use regular hose clamps? Thanks!

 

[pacecarta]

dbbl pumper tank sender has dual 3/8" oultlets , used rubber fuel line to just past the tank by the axle , then to a BGC billet 'Y' fitting (all female NPT) used 3/8 hose barb adapters to the tank lines (yes double clamped )and out using a npt to -8 female adapter to connect to the -8 braided line



ill snap a pick as soon as i get it back onto the lift

i've seen std -8 braided hose just pushed on the std single 3/8 outlet at the sender (most commercial dbbl pumpers only have the single outlet with the 'y' in the tank) and clamped and didnt seem to be a problem , on that car they also cheape dout on the fittings and pushed the -6 return hose over the stock feed line (they cutoff the saginaw end)

 

[V6UnderPressure]

This is great. I stumbled upon this thread because I had the exact same idea. Such the same that everything you did is exactly what I had planned. I even had my regulator set to mount on the champion bracket. Hell I think we have the same regulator. I'm using the Aeromotive A1000 stealth fuel cell, so the install is going to be nice and clean. Anyhow, how did you route the fuel lines above the tranny? And where did you mount the Y-Block? Mine has mounting ears so I'd like to fasten it somewhere. How about your return line? Thanks for any help!

 

[DR BOOST]

i ran into the same problem of melting the number 1 and sometimes 2 plugs after a pass. i changed to a very elaborate dual fed champion rail setup and external regulator...the result....nothing. In my experience, alcohol cars will face this problem right around the 10.0 mark. If i turn off the alky and run race gas....no prob. Im starting to believe that the alky tends to favor rear cylinders when subjected to the G-forces of a 10.0 ish car.

 

[KevinB]

i ran into the same problem of melting the number 1 and sometimes 2 plugs after a pass. i changed to a very elaborate dual fed champion rail setup and external regulator...the result....nothing. In my experience, alcohol cars will face this problem right around the 10.0 mark. If i turn off the alky and run race gas....no prob. Im starting to believe that the alky tends to favor rear cylinders when subjected to the G-forces of a 10.0 ish car.

Me and a few other have been saying this for a couple of years but it falls on deaf ears here a tb.com.