Dynamic EFI EBL Flash System For GM Sequential V6 Boosted Engines....

[Street Lethal]

I absolutely will not be able to use my engine harness, will I? Since I have a maf 2.8 right now, I will need to hybrid-in a harness from something else. I'll need either an 86-87 GN harness, a Turbo Trans Am harness, or an 88-94 3800 car harness? The run of the mill GM 3800 harness will be the easiest to get, and I am considering buying a whole car for the odds and ends and extra parts. Is there anything else special I will need to run this ECM in my 88 Firebird?

Your stock harness for the '302 V6 ECM found in your bird can be repinned through 11 wires to run the V8 '165 ECM, so there should be a way to repin it to coincide with the '7148 as if you were starting with the turbo buick harness from scratch. Try not to target an actual turbo buick and/or TTA harness as that can get expensive. Remember that the MAP sensor signal in the turbo buick is just for the boost gauge in the cluster, and the ECM does not even see that reading, just the MAF reading, so it shouldn't be that far off to begin with to your stock MAF harness. However, I do believe Bob mentioned being able to use the '8523 and '8264 found in the earlier 3.8/3800 V6's, which can be had for very cheap at the salvage yards, but let Bob confirm that though....

 

[Mystery_man]

With this system would there be a need to rescale for larger injectors or map sensors. I had a neon SRT-4 and with the SCT you needed a rescale from a CMD tuner for 750cc injectors + and for 3 bar map/tip+. I don't do my own tuning. I just like to let the professionals do this. Would this be an easy system for someone that has used tuning software for something like an AEM EMS or megasquirt.

 

[Street Lethal]

With this system would there be a need to rescale for larger injectors or map sensors....

The MAP scale is setup for up to 3-BAR, it is based on what your kpa is reading at the time, as that is the beauty of this system.... when your not in boost it essentially runs off of a 1-BAR configuration, then switches to 2-BAR, then 3-BAR when the ECM see's boost. With the injectors, normally you'll base your injector size on how much horsepower your actually making, or think your making (an approximation), this way you can select an injector ahead of time that you know will not peg during it's duty cycle and give you the freedom to increase pulse width without worrying about them going static. During VE Learn the EBL will narrow down your pulse width, then it is just a matter of fine tuning your pulse width based on your engines needs, because some engines like a little more fuel than others.

 

[Mystery_man]

Nice. Who would be able to tune the system? Is it only ment for the average joe or is there other software for the more experienced tuners. Like the Diablo flash tuners they have the software on the unit and than for the professional tuners they have CMR tuning software that enables them to do more than the software on the unit.

 

[TTipe]

VE Table Learns

I understand the BIN or "base map" concept to start.Am I to assume that I use the "Y" intercept of the injector and the software fills in the variables for pulsewidth duration??

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Nice. Who would be able to tune the system? Is it only ment for the average joe or is there other software for the more experienced tuners. Like the Diablo flash tuners they have the software on the unit and than for the professional tuners they have CMR tuning software that enables them to do more than the software on the unit.

Anyone can tune it. Everything is available to everyone. On the current EBL systems there are average Joe's tuning them to pro tuners tuning them. Have a lot of

feedback from all groups.

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[RmvBfrFlght]

I understand the BIN or "base map" concept to start.Am I to assume that I use the "Y" intercept of the injector and the software fills in the variables for pulsewidth duration??

The only PW tables are for acceleration enrichment (AE, also know in carb circles as pump-shot), and cranking.

The regular fueling is true SD using Boyle's gas law. The auto VE learn uses either the long term fuel trims or a WB input to correct the volumetric efficiency tables. Once this is completed the tune is correct for varying barometric pressure to varying engine coolant and intake temperatures.

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[atomic 6]

Not sure. Don't want to post a date and not make it. Then I'll feel as though I'm working at Microsoft



No, no 'E' transmission controllers yet.

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This system will NEVER be able to control a GM 6l80e transmission.

Only a CAN bus factory ecm will control that transmission.

 

[Street Lethal]

This system will NEVER be able to control a GM 6l80e transmission.

Only a CAN bus factory ecm will control that transmission.

Nobody has even made any real attempt to offer some type of controller for the 6l80e transmission, however, there are a few company's that I know of that are trying to work out the kinks to their individual attempts that have been placed on the back burner. The problem with the 6l80e is the unique propriatory controls and management, but it can, and will, eventually be hacked. Remember, the 6l80e is also driven by pulse width modulated solenoids, and as of right now, there really is no real need for the SFI-6 to attempt a hex hack to utilize such control, because not only is there really no need to, but because the 4l60e and 4l80e already get the job done.... :wink:

 

[atomic 6]

Oh, I am very familiar with the controls, in the transmission. TCM and and mechanicals. These transmission are very complicated clutch to clutch transmission.

That is why I was confident enough to state this system will NEVER be able to control a 6l80e.

There are selenoids in it just like a 4l60, or 4l80 but they are not implemented the same way those older transmissions are.

So this same thing I thought at first, if we can just figure out how to drive the selenoids ourselves, we can eliminate the TCM, but the speed, power,and programming for the way this trans works would take a team, awhile, to even reverse engineer.

Also the 4l60e won't get any job done, but empty your wallet.

Now the 4L80e, that is a workhorse.

And when/if the TCM can be communicated to in the 6L80e(the only viable way to control this transmission) we will have a whole different level of transmission available to the HotRodders.

 

[Reggie West]

Nobody has even made any real attempt to offer some type of controller for the 6l80e transmission, however, there are a few company's that I know of that are trying to work out the kinks to their individual attempts that have been placed on the back burner. The problem with the 6l80e is the unique propriatory controls and management, but it can, and will, eventually be hacked. Remember, the 6l80e is also driven by pulse width modulated solenoids, and as of right now, there really is no real need for the SFI-6 to attempt a hex hack to utilize such control, because not only is there really no need to, but because the 4l60e and 4l80e already get the job done.... :wink:

Rmv I can tell you this much, I have a high horse Buick T already. I use a batch fire FAST to run it and it works well. The trans is a 200-R4 with an AC non lock 3600 stall converter. It does not get very good gas milage and I would like the overdrive back in the trans. If this ECM can control the part throttle, lean cruise, street driving and highway speeds while getting better mileage that is a big plus. So yes i want the best of both worlds, I want decent gas mileage and 700 hp under my foot at the same time. It would be nice to be able to upgrade to a 6L80 for the gears and better mileage going down the freeway. Of course the 6L80 has to be able to hold up to the abuse. FAST makes a controller box to work with the 6L80 and the XFI, maybe the same can be done with this ECM.

In any case i am still interested in the ECM.

 

[Street Lethal]

FAST makes a controller box to work with the 6L80 and the XFI, maybe the same can be done with this ECM....

Reggie, do you have a link for that controller....?

 

[Reggie West]

I stand corrected, the controller does not list the 6L80 as being compatible but it does list all other GM and some Ford transmissions. Here is the link. I do know for sure the controller works with the 4L80.

FAST

 

[norbs]

Reggie I also have a work around for your lean cruise in the XFI.

 

[Reggie West]

Norbs I appreciate that but I am still using the batch fire FAST. This is part of the dilemma that I see between the FAST and Rmv's flash ECM.

I know that the FAST works well and that an XFI will solve most of my problems but I am not sure if an XFI will have maps for each gear and some of the other features that have been listed here. To its credit, the FAST unit has been the one that works the best and this was long before there was anything better. Lets not forget originally we were all dying for some kind of unit that you could make corrections with, data log and would actually control timing without blowing up your motor. Hell, when these cars were new we thought chips and fuel injection were the cats @ss, now its old news.

 

[norbs]

You are correct Reggie the XFI does not have maps for each gear. If you read the 51 improvements idea's for the XFI, its on the list somewhere. It looks like the EBL system has some unique features I agree, so you could get the features you want.

 

[Reggie West]

Any updates on progress?

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Any updates on progress?

Thank you for asking. Currently we are still working on the test vehicle. For the past month it has been non-stop working on it. The EBL SFI-6 firmware for the ECM is basically done. Just need to get it into a test vehicle to make sure that it all works OK. The test vehicle is an '87 GN, it runs, and has 99% of the work completed on it.

This will also allow us to put together a basic tune for getting our customers started. We did get behind schedule as the EBL Flash and EBL P4 product sales picked up since the beginning of the year.

Just want to make sure that what we release is correct and works correctly.

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[TomShea]

Low impedance drivers available?

Maybe I missed it but are there low impedance injector drivers available. I did see that they could be used the same as the stock ECM but I thought they were not available any more. It would be nice to have the option of running low impedance injectors.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Haven't been able to get the Cherry/On-Semi parts for some time. Although there must be something available as other aftermarket ECM are offered with low impedance support. Unless they are using discrete parts to build a PnH circuit.

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