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Factory Chevy Hyd Roller lifters.... adapt?

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Blazer406

Mechanical Engineer
Joined
May 2, 2002
Messages
5,068
Looking to maybe do something that hasn't been done.... if it has... I can't find it on here....

It is no secret the retro fit hyd roller lifters like the COMP 853 and 885 lifters work on our 231's. These are Chevrolet pieces. I want to do a conversion to use the cheap and readily available hydraulic roller lifters from the '87 and up small block chevy's.

Can someone tell me why they wouldn't work? I would have to either retrofit the factory spider (cut down of course if it came from a V8)... or fabricate my own spider.... the dog bone brackets should work as-is.

For me to propose this I am assuming a couple of things:

The SBC and the '87 231 Buick share the same size lifter bore and the same bore spacing (between intake and exhaust lifters of the same cylinder)


Is this feasable?
 
Studying about our own 3.8L ..... evidentally they made some factory roller 3.8 L starting in '86

VIN code 3: roller lifters (tappets)

Not real sure what the spider looks like in these engines.... but should be able to find some of these.
 
There is another possible issue in that the Buick lifters have a skirt extending down toward the cam that keeps the oil passages covered. If you try to use lifters that don't extend down far enough you can have no oil pressure. Don't know if this includes the chevy lifters.
 
Retrofit roller lifters

I have been looking into doing the same thing. There is a guy that sells instructions on how to do this to the earlier non-roller chevy blocks. I assume that our Buick motors would be a similiar conversion. From the reading I have done you need to use a shorter roller lifter from a V6 motor. It is the same diameter but shorter in height which solves the problem with the oiling. They are also lighter than the V8 roller lifters so you do not need to use such a heavy valve spring. The GM part number for the shorter V6 roller lifter is 17120070. Do a search on Google for Chevy Roller Lifter Conversion and I think you will find what I am talking about. You can also find info about doing a chevy conversion on www.thirdgen.org again I think this info would apply to the Buick V6. I was going to start collecting parts for my conversion and then had to put this project on the back burner due to other projects. I thought that I would just cut down a V8 spider to fit our V6 block. Please keep us informed on your progress. I have two Buick V6 motors that I want to try to convert so info on what you find out would be appreciated.
 
Here is what I found:

'86-'88 3.8L SFI Vin 3 had factory hyd roller tappets
'88-'91 3800 SFI Vin C had them
'89-'93 3300 Vin N had them
'91-'95 3800 TPI Vin L had them

I am sure there are others.... but best I can tell.... none were RWD..... I was hoping to find a factory 109 block that had hyd roller lifters.... and that would be what I tried to find in the junkyard to use for my next engine buildup..... but oh well.... back to trying to convert a flat tappet 109 block to roller.

More research to follow.
 
Brian, which ones were the correct lifters that dont need to be modified?
BW
 
84-86 Monte Carlo's 4.1 V6 it had roller lifters in it, if this is any help
 
The 60 deg. V6...........3.1.......3.4........these are the shorter roller lifters.

HTH
 
IIRC Chevy lifters are .001" smaller in diameter. Lets put it this way. Lots of cam manufacturers back in the day substituted Chevys for Buicks. Who cared if your Buick lost oil pressure and wiped a cam? I think if you look at any cam catalog you'll see Chevy and Buick use different numbers. The oil hole does play a small part but I think it's the diameter that is the real reason they wont work.
 
Eric, I don't know the diameter of the 3.1 lifters but if you go to acdelco.com and look up the roller lifters for the 88 3.8 fwd motors you get HL124, and then list all the applications it is 52 pages, including the 4.3 Chevy V6's and all the ls motors, so those must be the same diameter :-). The 3.1 in the 96 Lumina lifter is HL118 if you have any way of looking up specs.
 
Eric, I don't know the diameter of the 3.1 lifters but if you go to acdelco.com and look up the roller lifters for the 88 3.8 fwd motors you get HL124, and then list all the applications it is 52 pages, including the 4.3 Chevy V6's and all the ls motors, so those must be the same diameter :-). The 3.1 in the 96 Lumina lifter is HL118 if you have any way of looking up specs.


The 90 deg v6 and v8 lifters are the tall ones.... the 60 deg v6 (i.e 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, 3100, 3400) use the short lifters I am running. I also think/thought they were the same diameter......

Cam companies are spec'ing sbc retrofit hyd roller lifters with there sets no?
 
The typical SBC lifter has a .100" deeper pushrod cup in them. When going to roller rockers, and a new flat tappet cam, you can save a few bucks on push rods, as the roller rockers need a .100" shorter push rod. There are varing degrees of diameters on flat tappet lifters. (.0005-.0010") The diameter is the same on a SBC and the Buick. Even the oil groove is in the same location. There are edge orafice lifters that are different, though.

Now back to the OEM roller question: It just takes some drilling and tapping to get the factory "spider" secure. I've read about it on this or the other site. I just buy the roller kits from FullThrottle. They work good, and do not require fiddling.:) But, I do like innovation.
 
.............

I just buy the roller kits from FullThrottle. They work good, and do not require fiddling.:) But, I do like innovation.

The day you have a tie bar break and the lifter turn sideways is the day your opinion will change.......... (Been-there-done-that)
 
Eric, I don't know the diameter of the 3.1 lifters but if you go to acdelco.com and look up the roller lifters for the 88 3.8 fwd motors you get HL124, and then list all the applications it is 52 pages, including the 4.3 Chevy V6's and all the ls motors, so those must be the same diameter :-). The 3.1 in the 96 Lumina lifter is HL118 if you have any way of looking up specs.

The logic is sound and you are correct that the roller lifter is the same. But you are trying to stuff these into a flat tappet Buick. All Buick flat tappets are the same. All Chevy flat tappets are the same. The Buick uses a different number than the Chevy flat tappet. That would most likely mean that there is some difference(I'm saying check the diameter). I'm also thinking that Buick changed the lifter bore diameter when they switched to roller cams.BTW the roller for the 4.3 isn't the same as the SBC which leads back to a difference in the diameter. Which means that a roller out of a Buick wont retrofit into a Buick with flat tappets. Sorry,I dont have any specs for the 3.1 lifter.
 
The logic is sound and you are correct that the roller lifter is the same. But you are trying to stuff these into a flat tappet Buick. All Buick flat tappets are the same. All Chevy flat tappets are the same. The Buick uses a different number than the Chevy flat tappet. That would most likely mean that there is some difference(I'm saying check the diameter). I'm also thinking that Buick changed the lifter bore diameter when they switched to roller cams.BTW the roller for the 4.3 isn't the same as the SBC which leads back to a difference in the diameter. Which means that a roller out of a Buick wont retrofit into a Buick with flat tappets. Sorry,I dont have any specs for the 3.1 lifter.

I took a set out of a 96' 3.1 and they measure the same as the flat tappets out of our 3.8's in both diameter and length. I'm in the process of retrofiting into a 3.8 :cool:
 
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