FAST system

[GetOwnedVette]

I said the way you want though!! Fancy standalones usually peak curiosity for other trick additions! Usually that means ams 500/1000 boost controller and a dyno tune

I suppose when you look at it like that it's only a few more bucks.....I just happen to be one of those people that had to get all the fancy stuff to go with my standalone Self control is something i have yet to learn..clicking buy it now is just so fun!

 

[bison]

Fwiw it isn't likely wideband correction is going to save an engine if there is a hiccup. I've
seen plenty of engines melted with wideband correction with no increase in fuel delivery and the maximum correction. It's up to the tuner to know what the limitations are. It's up to the owner to maintain the systems. It's all fun till something goes wrong and an engine is hurt. Then the blame game begins. It's still play
at your own risk. One if the really nice things about aftermarket ecms is that there is so much flexibility in the ramp in tune that gives you a huge advantage over a chip car.

 

[Nick Micale]

See post below!

 

[Nick Micale]

IMHO, you need to have a clear direction on what you want to accomplish. IMHO, if your goals aren't 9's or quicker.... you probably need to stick with a chip for now. It doesn't get any easier on an 11 sec regal than to just buy a TT chip and plug it in and go. Also, if you can't do some of it yourself (tuning a FAST) you will do alot more sitting than driving as compared to a chip.

Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for a FAST..... just probably not "the answer" for many turbo regal owners....and since the OP has a very small number of posts.... and no details in his sig..... I must assume you are probably in the 11 - 13 sec range.

Coach..... just because you get a FAST doesn't insure you can't/won't blow it up. IMHO, sometimes it is easier to screw something up in the FAST than in a chip. With either system, things like fuel system, power and ground system must be there or things are gonna get ugly quick.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when you give advise, it should be backed up by real data and info.

A 25 year old computer is no match for a current version FAST computer. There and many upgrades and band-aids for a stock computer, but none, or all, of them are even a close match for the latest FAST computer.

The FAST is light-years ahead in reliability, performance, data recording, ease-of-use, self learning capability, and a host of other items.

The major "issue" is the initial cost, BUT when you total up all the add-on parts and pieces to try and upgrade a stock computer to work on a GN, you are very close, or maybe even, to the cost of a FAST system.

My worse nightmare is a GN with numerous electronic/stock computer add-ones. The first issue is adapting to 25 year-old wiring with connectors in horrible shape, and full of wiring gremlins.

Since these parts are from various vendors/manufactures, compatibility is often an issue which makes trouble shooting difficult, if not impossible in some cases?

You do advocate FAST for a 9 sec. car, but what about a reliable 10 sec. build with at least $10K in the engine build?

On the 10 sec. car, with probably another $10K in supporting parts, would a $2500 investment in a FAST system to "protect", it make good sense, instead of spending almost that figure in computer add-ons?

Here is my experience, in 2005 I installed one of the first XFI units, and it is still doing a great job and has been extremely reliable.

The Classic FAST which it replaced, had been used since 2000, and is still in service today with another owner.

 

[Eric Stage I]

flexibility in the ramp in tune that gives you a huge advantage over a chip car.

Don't mean to hijack, but...
Brian, do you mean fuel or timing, or both? Maybe this is something I can work on, some type of adjustment there.
Eric

 

[Mr.Spool]

to me can't beat the ease of a tt chip and translater.i ran 10's on a 5.6 chip and stock maf.most often its better to keep it simple.

 

[bison]

Don't mean to hijack, but...
Brian, do you mean fuel or timing, or both? Maybe this is something I can work on, some type of adjustment there.
Eric

Both. Before the car even moves one inch I typically have already adjusted the timing table
and ve and target tables in the area where turbo will be on ramp in. I just engage the trans brake or brakes and start adjusting those cells. Typically within 2 minutes I'll see a drastic improvement. adjustment in that area would be nice. Car to car it's different. If the converter is a little different or the cam has overlap, or the engine has a different CR. Unfortunately guys throw cams in these engines without thinking about the converter. They seem to think about it with turbo selection only. They could have a much quicker spooling setup if they ran a slightly different cam and the trade off of peak power would be minimal.

 

[wmerrell]

to me can't beat the ease of a tt chip and translater.i ran 10's on a 5.6 chip and stock maf.most often its better to keep it simple.

This has been a great thread! A lot of good in formation has been disseminated.
If I have a couple of grand next year to spend on a FAST system, it may go in.

 

[TurboBuRick]

I get a good laugh out of these threads. I can't argue the ramp in but WOT fuel and Timing work the same way with either set up. The aftermarket ecu's have allot more cool guy adjustability but if you don't know how to use, it will have no benefit.

First and foremost, you have to know a few things before you venture into the aftermarket ecm's. They are a beautiful thing but if you don't know anything about them and how they work, your better off with a stock ecm, basic translator and ls1 maf.

Rick

 

[Blazer406]

********* WARNING - Long winded reply starts here************


Nick, you make some valid points.

I never have poked at the FAST's reliability.... although it isn't perfect. We had an instance one time where we washed the engine off...... and apparently got water inside one of the connections..... so we were plugging and unplugging stuff and looking for the problem...... apparently had the key "on". Turns out if you unplug the IAC with the key on on the XFI, you will burn out the IAC drivers in the FAST box. I believe this to be documented here in a thread or two by other people besides our group. We had to send the box back to FAST to have repaired. I don't think this happens on the stock ECU. There have also been various "flash" issues when a new flash comes out that fixes certain bugs or provides certain enhancements. I'm not going into the big "flash" issue (I have no first hand knowledge or experience with this particular "flash" update).....that was well docemented on this site, but we updated ours one time.... and it was acting crazy...... apparently it inverted the TPS table (and one other table I can't remember) when we installed the new flash. It thought the throttle was at 100% when there was nobody pushing the gas pedal..... and when you floored it.... it though the TPS was at 0%. That took a minute to find and figure out.

You also point out about the old connectors..... yes that is an issue..... but alot of the people on here considering upgrading to a FAST would most likely (I am guessing)..... opt for the caspers adaptor box which (as you already know) will still utilize the same stock 25 year old engine harness just like the stock ECU was using.

Yes, I talk about using it on 9 sec cars. I could see some people taking advantage of it on 10 sec cars. I like to see people that go to the XFI have some knowledge of how the system works.... and have a laptop.... and know how to load a program and tweak a program themselves. It is perfectly alright to have an expert like Cal to call on to help them, but alot of the trivial stuff they could handle on their own...... but that is just me.

As far as adaptor boxes on an old system...... the translator (I run the base translator.... not the translator plus) is a (I know you already know this (Nick) but I am bringing this up for the people reading this that might not know this already) stand alone plug-and-play adaptor allowing you to use a much larger and more readily available MAF sensor. The SM is just a box to keep tabs on engine paramters on a car that you drive alot and don't want to carry a laptop. (The XFI would have similar drawbacks if you had a check engine light light up and you had no laptop to see what was the issue... FAST's workaround is their dash deal that is hundreds of $$). The PL is an excellent datalogger for the stock ECU.... with extra inputs you can hook up the wideband to among other things. On the classic FAST, you had to have an external DL if you wanted to log data withoug the laptop in the car during a run. A lot of the XFI's didn't come with a built-in DL unless you payed extra either.... seems like it was around $100 more.

Brian, you are correct, WB correction isn't going to save a motor all the time....... but it will allow you to have the flexability to have it (overall fueling) spot on in average conditions (weather you are tuning an XFI or a stock ECU) and it will correct a little as needed during a run where the temperature is less or more than when you centered the fueling of your tune. A chip car without WB... you will need to sneak up on the tune..... adjusting the fuel every run as you up the boost. If you come back next weekend with the same tuneup and the temp is 20 deg cooler.... the tuneup will be considerably more lean. With wideband correctionn set properly, it will still maintain proper AFR with the temp changes. You may decide after the run to move the overall fueling... but at least that run was still safe.... and the AFR was what you told it to be during the run.

Here is something you can't do extremely easy with an XFI..... have it pull timing in high gear only...... It would take some creative wiring.... probably a wisker switch.... and some thought how to make it work. The 6.1 TT chip this is only a click away.

I know this has gotten long winded.... but not everybody needs a FAST....... it is the latest and greatest...... I still maintain most cars looking to run low 11's or even into the 10's.... unless you gotta have the most bling....... you won't find it any easier than you will with a good modern chip. I know of people that have put together a whole new engine combo.... got a chip to match...... that wasn't wideband controlled a the time (I don't think) .... bolted it all on and 1st pass off the trailer with no tuning it went 10.84..... with the default settings in the chip.

It is the right AFR... and the right ignition timing..... and it will run like a raped ape...... bottom line.

 

[Blazer406]

Dutt neck intercooler and a half.

Alky - yes

How do I go wideband with the WOT 02 correction?

You buy and install a wideband like the AEM (less than $200) and one of the TT wideband chips. I think version 6.1 is the norm now for a MAF wideband chip from TT. Basically you hook the wideband signal to one of the screw terminals on the powerlogger terminal block..... and that tells the ECU what the WB AFR is....... then you take Eric's new chip which looks at this WB reading.... and you tell it what AFR you want and it pretty much tunes itself. (This is slightly over simplifying this but it is almost that simple)

 

[HighPSI]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I would just like to explain a typical XFI transaction with us.

When you order the XFI, we will email you a build sheet that you need to complete (I am sure Eric has something similar). Once completed, the sheet gets emailed back and I build the tune. The more detailed you are with the information, the closer I can get the tune. I pre-program the box with the tune and setup the internal data logger, TPS settings, WBO2 type, etc.. Usually we can accomplish all this and ship the box the same day you order it.
Once you receive everything, you will need to install a WBO2 bung in the downpipe (included in the kit), you will need to move the Air Temp Sensor to the intake (preferred) or up-pipe, route the WBO2 wires to the sensor, and lastly remove the stock MAF & ECM and install the adaptor box and XFI. This pretty much completes the installation.
The customer will need to install the software on their laptop, then call me. If they are very proficient, then they can do the rest on their own. Once on the phone, I have them start the car and we adjust a couple tables. I then give them a brief lesson on how everything works and what to watch for. Depending on the customer, this can take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. That pretty much completes the install.
Most of the customers will then just drive the car around and let the adaptive learning tune the car for them. As they get more comfortable with the system, some customers will start to play with the tables to try and get even more out of their combination.

As you can see, this is a little more involved than just ordering a chip and sticking it in the ecm. It's up to the cutomer to know his goals, abilities, and limitations as to which setup is right for him

 

[Boost231]

^ Cal it 100% on. Thats how it worked for me. Not only did they ship fast but he answers all my questions whenever i have them. Trust me i have alot of questions

 

[Major Nutz]

My case was a little different. Bought the car with an XFI that was too much for me to grasp at the time. There was something internally that was causing the XFI to lose power and after stranding me one too many times,I sold it and went back to the stock ecm and tt chip. After adding the power logger and wideband, I'm happy with the way it is now.

The guy I sold it to had the same issue and sent it in for repair. It's been working great for him ever since.

 

[northerngn]

Hartline for the win!
At first there were a few calls but now after 2 seasons on xfi I'm calling Cal very rarely and doing all the installs for other people here...once it clicks your golden and def hooked for life!!!

oh, and WINNING hahaha!!!
(SUPER STOCK TURBO CLASS CHAMPION)

 

[grey racer]

I've had the xfi in my gn for almost 2 years now and there is no doubt in my mind that without it, I'd have made many mistakes in troubleshooting problems
and probably wasted many a dollar throwing parts in that weren't needed. If you're an expert tuner and know these cars like the back of your hand, then
you can get by without the xfi....but if you're the average person who enjoys these cars and wants them running right without having to spend your life under the hood
and lose sleep trying to figure out what in the wide wide world of sports is goin on with your gn, then the xfi is the way to go....
Cal is the man, his support is priceless and when you get one from him, he follows up on things and keeps things right. It gives you an enormous amount of info and logging is
easy to decipher and once you get the hang of it, you're way ahead of the game....just my 2 cents.

 

[northerngn]

 

[TurboBob]

Don't mean to hijack, but...
Brian, do you mean fuel or timing, or both? Maybe this is something I can work on, some type of adjustment there.
Eric

Was going to pose the same question.

The translator pro offers much of this although the timing during the spool is not currently tunable.

good food for thought.

Bob

 

[jasjamz]

Gotta crawl before you walk. Learn the car and the basics of tuning first. Then see what you will need to reach your goal. I like them both but know the combination of Turbo Tweak chips and Bob Bailey and tuning tools are working well for me and my friends at this time. Cal is awesome at what he does with the standalone ECU's. The standalone computers are nice options. It's like everything else with these cars. Your combination must work for you and fit your needs. Be honest with what you are capable of handling and go that route. If you are easily frustrated, a poor communicator, or cheap...you don't need either!

 

[northerngn]

If you are easily frustrated, a poor communicator, or cheap...you don't need...a 20+ year old turbo buick!