Fast XFI or Big Stuff Everyday Driveablilty

[Grumpy]

You still have to pay a chip burner for the chip changes too....so that argument of paying a "tuner" for the xfi is a wash....If you only have a chip, with no available choices of tune, you have to take the chip out, mail it off and wait until they send it back to you....whats so difficult about getting a start up tune for the xfi ? One can actually get a start up tune from the vendor they buy the xfi from ... The great thing about the xfi, as mentioned above, any add on's you decide to buy later, are easily intergrated with the xfi as your tuning device without having to buy another chip. Also, if your at the track, and have wireless internet on your lap top, ( as I do ) you can record a run, email it to one of the vendors ( jack has done this for me personally...he rocks !) he can make the changes and email it back. You can download it and be ready to make another run without missing a pass.... Now THAT is kick ass technology ! There is NO comparison....

OMG for the last time Turbo Tweak and Full Throttles chips you can adjust WITHOUT sending them back Oh we only run the cheapie MAF translater to.
So what are you "STREET guys running for times with your XFI systems ??

 

[WSLN 6]

Last night on my DPIC gauge on a slow street tire start I ran 11.9 at 136mph. Good stuff!

 

[TurboDave]

Last night on my DPIC gauge on a slow street tire start I ran 11.9 at 136mph. Good stuff!

OK, stupid question, what is a DPIC gauge, and more importantly, what does it use for inertial measurement?

 

[WSLN 6]

Oh sorry, it's Autometer's version of a gtech gauge. You let it calibrate and it says "Go" and you go.... Don't have to worry if it is perfectly level every time.

 

[Grumpy]

Oh sorry, it's Autometer's version of a gtech gauge. You let it calibrate and it says "Go" and you go.... Don't have to worry if it is perfectly level every time.

sounds like a "Butt Dyno" to me Ever take it to the track ??

 

[SloGN]

OMG for the last time Turbo Tweak and Full Throttles chips you can adjust WITHOUT sending them back Oh we only run the cheapie MAF translater to.
So what are you "STREET guys running for times with your XFI systems ??

I didn't know that those chips would allow you to change the injector sizes on the fly.


I have a bailey chip that has some nice adjustments but nothing like what the fast will allow. That was what i was running before i installed my classic fast. oh it's a alky chip too The funny thing is that the car runns just as quick on pump gas and street tires @ 15 psi with the fast as it did with the stock ecm and bailey's chip and alky @ 21 psi on street tires. go figure 23/21 alky for 55 inj it's a extender extremme as well.


Well so far i have run a best of a 7.21 @ 95 in the 1/8 @ 22psi with a failing fuel pump. I'm currently adding a second pump. Gotta love walbro pumps


I know that there is guys running dang quik on the stock ecm but how much time/chips did it take.

Grumpy you stated that you carried a chip burner in the trunk with ya to make the adjustments needed. I'm sure that was before we had these great chips and add-ons we have now.

So my questions is does your car still run just as quick with the same chip you ordered? Is the adjustments that chip enough to make it perform like the chip of yester year that you burned over and over to get it to run in the 9 nines.

Cause i'm sure you didn't just burn the chip the first time out and the car was instantly in the 9's.

 

[SloGN]

Modern chips, like Extenders and Turbo Tweak have their own unique set of adjustments available. Add to that a plethora of adjustments available in the modern Translators, and there's not much that can't be done (or ran) with the stock ECU and chips.

the biggest thing i have against the translator is when they add timing you can't see it on the datalog since it's after the ecm. so is it really adding the timing you set it at or more maybe less. Another thing is with translator are lie to the ecm about the actual airflow that entering the engine to control the fuel. there will be a point that you simply can not do that. i think the extender extreme chips will allow one to see 768 grams of air.

The speed-density translator does the same thing but converts the map sensor voltage in a maf signal so the ecm will still fuction like it has a maf on it. so it's still lying.

The stand-alone systems shows the actual timing the program is set at.

the stand-alone reads map senspr voltage and shows that in kpa the pressure is independant of the airflow.

 

[WSLN 6]

I have not seen the track yet with the new combo, our local track frowns on my attempts with no cage....lol
I will be doing some full runs the end of August. Feels really good so far.
I have always used Turbotweak when I had a stock ecm, and he does a great job of squeezing performance out of these V6's for sure.
I do wish I would have upgraded years ago though. Big expense, but I love it!

 

[Alky V6]

Accelerometers are a proven technology. Nothing butt about it.

 

[jasjamz]

Cotton's T-netics 66BB S-trim,
Hartline XFI, BWR 3.5 dp w/Trbosmrt gate
Champ Intake,GN1's,T&D's,
Razor alky, 75lbrs, Powerstroke IC
210/215 roller, Forged stroker, TA headers, HR Bar
Lonnie Diers Stage 2, PTC 9.5 N/L With that combo you should be seeing
136 mph... bet you could get the same thing out if a $100 chip as you did with that $2000 computer:biggrin: Smart radar detector in my opinion.

I see most of you don't even know how advanced the chips are these days because you have be stuck trying to figure out the high dollar ECU.:smile:

If you have the cash to buy new injectors you have the cash to get the matching chip.

I will keep laughing at these Chip vs. ECU threads even though we have gotten off topic here.

Slogn... If one can add timing via the chip, then why add it via the translator and take the risk of not being able to see it. If one chose to do it that way im sure he is smart enought to remember that when reviewing logs. You make it seem like us chip users just do stupid $h!t.

Dentmasters... What if Jack, Cal, or whoever is busy. The point is you need to be able to do it yourself. Not rely on Jack(Great Guy) to babysit 30 people across the U.S because he sold them an ECU. I can e-mail Logs and post them as well to get help with the power logger. But Eric or whoever won't have it on his head if something was imput wrong e mailed and turned into an costing engine download as I have heard of with the ECUs before.

 

[TurboDave]

I know that there is guys running dang quik on the stock ecm but how much time/chips did it take.

.

1 chip..... Extender Pro/Translator Pro went into the 9's a year ago.

 

[Grumpy]

Grumpy you stated that you carried a chip burner in the trunk with ya to make the adjustments needed. I'm sure that was before we had these great chips and add-ons we have now.

NOPE... don't need a chip burner in the trunk .. I have used 3 chips over the years in ALL the cars I have had.(1986/ NOW) .. First was a Kenne Bell we used with the stock inj (1986).. Then went with a Dynotech (Fred Vetter)chip for stock inj / 36# blues and ran them @ mid 11s till a few years ago. 3 years ago we went with a turbotweak with Melissa's new combo 60# inj bla bla bla..

So my questions is does your car still run just as quick with the same chip you ordered? Is the adjustments that chip enough to make it perform like the chip of yester year that you burned over and over to get it to run in the 9 nines.

SURE DID !!! STREET TRIM 10.80s outta the box and 9.9 @ 138 "playing" with it. Did you have to make "ANY" changes to your's??? SOOOO I don't see a chip being burned over and over.

Cause i'm sure you didn't just burn the chip the first time out and the car was instantly in the 9's.

WRONG

ok outta here.. bottom line lots of guys have spent $$$$$ on their cars and feel like they need a fast systems , front mounts an so on to run 11s or 10's .. Hey it's their $$$$ to do whatever floats their boat


quoats are in your post

 

[TurboDave]

the biggest thing i have against the translator is when they add timing you can't see it on the datalog since it's after the ecm. so is it really adding the timing you set it at or more maybe less.

You can now with the powerlogger.

Another thing is with translator are lie to the ecm about the actual airflow that entering the engine to control the fuel. there will be a point that you simply can not do that. i think the extender extreme chips will allow one to see 768 grams of air.

Well, if you want to call it a lie, fine. Actually maipulation of data. Nothing different than ANY adjustable chip does. 768grams of air is a LOT!! Way more than you or I are capable of flowing yet.

The speed-density translator does the same thing but converts the map sensor voltage in a maf signal so the ecm will still fuction like it has a maf on it. so it's still lying.

No it's not lying. I'ts just creating a maf signal using the EXACT same parameter that any speed density system does. MAP, TPS, RPM, and a VE table. You may not have realized the Trans Pro actually has it's own VE table.

The stand-alone systems shows the actual timing the program is set at.

See above.

the stand-alone reads map senspr voltage and shows that in kpa the pressure is independant of the airflow.

So does the Translator Pro.

 

[TURBO 6]

This post says it all.

wow-----looks like to me we are comparing a lot of apples to oranges------can we take a F.A.S.T. (or other modern EFI controller) on a highly modified car and make it run as streetable as a stock ecm on a mildly modified car-------thats sort of like asking can we treat a tiger like a pet cat and have it behave like a house cat--------i am not an expert tuner by any stretch of the imagination but i am a really good electrical engineer and have a modest amount of common sense logic---------that said i realize the merits of the stock ECM and pay homage to the thousands of design and programming hours that went into the stock ECM and operating system code--------BUT it is an early 1980 era computer-------it shares lineage with the DOS IBM, Radio Shack TRS 80 and Commodore 64 for those of you that even know what these were-------many of these newer aftermarket ECM's share the heritage of Pentium dual core processors that run at speeds that were found only in large Penatgon supercomputers in the early 80's-------the operating systems and calculation speeds of these new systems make it inconcievable for me to believe that they cannot outperform the older OEM ECM's if a reasonable amount of time is spent optimizing the program-------a FAST XFI can probably calculate pi to a thousand places between injector pulses--------one thing I do know for sure------at my last open house Jack Cotton was kind enough to install a XFI on one of my daily driver GNX's-------it has simple mods------36 lb injectors, TA 49, mid 90's ATR downpipe with external wastegate, Reds fuel pump-------he spent less than half hour tuning it-------car runs like a proverbial Swiss watch AND bat out of hell--------why is that not a surprise to me??????--------look what computer related items have done elsewhere in the last 25 years--------even if all you want to do is type a simple letter and print it on paper look at the difference in a early 80's DOS IBM and a modern Pentium dual core computer running OFFICE software--------wanna really put it into perspective?????? internet technology circa early 80's was DOS operating systems interfaced with dial-up via Compuserve..............RC

 

[JayC]

This post says it all.

Not really... you should take a look at the calibration tables for a stock ECM and compare what can be done with a stock ECM versus any aftermarket ECU.

For tuneability, aftermarket ECMs are somewhat better. For general driveability, the stock ECM is better if you keep your injector sizing reasonable.

Ive been tuning stock ECMs and aftermarket systems for the better part of 20 years so Id say I have a little experience with both.

 

[Quick Turbo V6]

I know that there is guys running dang quik on the stock ecm but how much time/chips did it take.



It took about 5 or 6 chips and a few hours to get mine going. But then again Bob never tuned a Stage 2 stock ecm car for 160lb injectors

9.37@141 was the last pass in October 07. Broke the axle, still hoping to see an 8 second pass this year after it gets fixed.

Scott

 

[salvageV6]

Why would anyone dis the stock ECM?

" It’s true: The brain of NASA’s primary vehicle has the computational power of an IBM 5150, that ’80s icon that goes for $20 at yard sales. According to NASA and IBM, the shuttle’s General Purpose Computer (GPC)—which controls, among other things, the entire launch sequence—is an upgrade of the 500-kilobyte computer the shuttle flew with until 1991.

Such an antiquated computer works just fine for NASA. The shuttle doesn’t need to support a powerful graphics engine or create PowerPoint presentations or store MP3s. It focuses entirely on raw functions—thrusters on, thrusters off—which, though mathematically complex, don’t require the juice that a user interface like Windows calls for. The GPC has flown so many missions with hardly a hiccup that there’s no reason to replace it, even if it is just 0.005 percent as powerful as an Xbox 360. Besides, a complete overhaul would be horrendously expensive. The GPC’s software would have to be completely reconfigured for a modern computer and tested until proven flawless.

For proof that you shouldn’t fix a space computer if it ain’t broke, consider Russia’s Soyuz space capsule, which since 1974 has been running Argon-16 flight-computer software with just six kilobytes of RAM. In 2003 the Russians rewrote some of the spacecraft’s software, which experts suspect led to its subsequent crash-landing in a desert in Kazakhstan. "

What flies the shuttle isn't all that powerful.


Whatever system you run you need to learn to tune it yourself and of course decently for what you plan on doing with the car. :smile:

Took me longer to solder the wires on the GENII translator system than it did to get it up and running properly with my TT chip for the stock MAF that was on it.

Gonna order the Extreme G YO chip someday....

I guess I agree with Grumpy and Dave, but hey, if your're waiting on a powerful big buildup and have the cash and have the time to learn the aftermarket stuff then by all means go for it.

Just don't expect it to be that quick or easy if you blew up the first motor with the stock ECM in it with your "questionable" tuning ability.

Any serious rewiring or relays or added harnesses etc. needed to run a stock car like a stocker, fan control, A/C, TCC, all that stuff with the aftermarket systems?

If so don't forget to add them to the costs.

 

[dentmasters01]

OMG for the last time Turbo Tweak and Full Throttles chips you can adjust WITHOUT sending them back Oh we only run the cheapie MAF translater to.
So what are you "STREET guys running for times with your XFI systems ??

Just making the connection that just because you have a variable chip....how do you know what to set it to without help....I'm sure if you just started turning the wheel you could easily scrap a motor.....just like with the xfi
no one has doubted your tuning abilities here.....xfi just makes it easier for me. Its at my finger tips as to what I want to change and whats going on is easily viewable with the laptop. It also has the benefit of the addition of 25% fuel if something goes wrong.

as far as my times so far...my car is a stock block, stock heads, 4,000 lbs, 250 lbs. of subs, amps in the trunk, tv in the car, playstation, full interior. soft launch's ( nothing better than a 1.55 60 ft.) and has been 6.40's at 110 at moderate boost.

how about your's, i know your in the 9's but whats the car like ?

 

[TURBO 6]

Not really... you should take a look at the calibration tables for a stock ECM and compare what can be done with a stock ECM versus any aftermarket ECU.

For tuneability, aftermarket ECMs are somewhat better. For general driveability, the stock ECM is better if you keep your injector sizing reasonable.

Ive been tuning stock ECMs and aftermarket systems for the better part of 20 years so Id say I have a little experience with both.

I guess I'm not "old" enough to understand. When new technology is there, I like to take advantage of it.

Plus I'm too lazy to turn the key, fumble around for a sheet of paper, press the gas pedal, hold it, press it, blah blah. Also don't like big bulky controllers mounted to my dash.

 

[dentmasters01]

Cotton's T-netics 66BB S-trim,
Hartline XFI, BWR 3.5 dp w/Trbosmrt gate
Champ Intake,GN1's,T&D's,
Razor alky, 75lbrs, Powerstroke IC
210/215 roller, Forged stroker, TA headers, HR Bar
Lonnie Diers Stage 2, PTC 9.5 N/L With that combo you should be seeing
136 mph... bet you could get the same thing out if a $100 chip as you did with that $2000 computer:biggrin: Smart radar detector in my opinion.

I see most of you don't even know how advanced the chips are these days because you have be stuck trying to figure out the high dollar ECU.:smile:

If you have the cash to buy new injectors you have the cash to get the matching chip.

I will keep laughing at these Chip vs. ECU threads even though we have gotten off topic here.

Slogn... If one can add timing via the chip, then why add it via the translator and take the risk of not being able to see it. If one chose to do it that way im sure he is smart enought to remember that when reviewing logs. You make it seem like us chip users just do stupid $h!t.

Dentmasters... What if Jack, Cal, or whoever is busy. The point is you need to be able to do it yourself. Not rely on Jack(Great Guy) to babysit 30 people across the U.S because he sold them an ECU. I can e-mail Logs and post them as well to get help with the power logger. But Eric or whoever won't have it on his head if something was imput wrong e mailed and turned into an costing engine download as I have heard of with the ECUs before.

I guess if they were busy, I'd have to wait. thats why its important to learn your system so you can tune it yourself. Just like with the others. If I email them the gct file along with the run, its like they are setting in my car looking at my computer. No difference being miles away or there on the spot. I don't have to input data ( which you just stated could be imput wrong) to show what was going on.
If I had bought the translator and the thumbwheel ect... would I automatically know how to tune it ? would I magically know what timing to put in, ect....with out someone telling me what to do ?