Gains with champion ported intake?

Joined
Jul 5, 2010
So my mods are listed in my sig, I'm really dissatisfied with how the car pulls currently. I actually think it was faster last year with the stock cam stock heads and the 56mm turbo. I was wondering for those with bigger turbos if the stock manifold is severely choking out my car, and if there are significant gains to be had with the champion manifold.
 
ported stockers have been 10's. so is the stock intake choking the system, maybe some but not as much as you think with your current build. will the champion intake help, I would say yes. However who knows how much. the bigger the turbo the more the champion intake will help.
 
It's frustrating because I do not know what is killing the power. Car is only making 280whp and 370wtq. What would you suggest for psi I think I'm throwing too much boost and making too much heat.
 
how much boost? i have run 28-29psi. heat hurt my performance past 26psi. then again i was getting high back pressure as well. we need to look at your total setup
 
Well at peak tq it makes about 18psi and by 5500 it makes 25-27psi if I hold it to 6k in third it will hit just shy of 30psi. I need to figure out why I'm having boost creep as well. Makes no sense. Ported opening on the turbo and an oversized pUck for my dp flange from rjc. Car runs on e85 prob only thing keeping it together right now. Anything else you need to know? I hate being lost.
 
I have a 3" intake, ported tb, this bigger turbo, ported 8445s, 212/212 cam, 109 shortblock, 3.5" downpipe, 80# injectors, running e85 and alky
 
If youre sure the cam timing is correct and everything else is good as far as timing verified and tune then id consider an intake manifold asap. The stock intake is a piece of crap if it hasnt been cut open. Ive gone 10.60 on an 86-89 with a 60-1 and stock valve heads with a bowl cleanup and no porting and a very small 212/212 grind with less than .500 lift. I ran around 30psi to run 127.85mph. The car dynoed in the low 500's at the wheels and was a test bed for various turbos about 2 years ago. Even though i had an intercooler i doubt its gains were much compared to what i would do if i ran an e85 tune. I was on 93/alky. The CR was only 7.5:1 also. Fwiw i didnt have boost creep. I had some boost drop off up top though. At the beginning of 3rd id see 30.4psi (highest reading i got on the 3 bar) and it would taper off to 29-30 out the back of 3rd because the compressor was out of breath. I ran it for all it was worth. If the mass efficiency of the engine is high enough you will run the 60-1 compressor out of breath at 62-63lbs/min. I was around 60lbs/min calculated on the 127.85mph pass. The 60-1 is best around 2.3:1 PR. If you have creeping issues with a 60-1 then your engine mass efficiency isnt too good. That intake manifold is causing a huge bottle neck in the air induction. Changing to the good champion intake will likely result in a huge mass efficiency increase that will result in huge power gains at much lower pressure ratios. The only advantage as far as air flow i had over what you have not including your intake is i had a better compressor cover that complements the compressor better than the stock one you are running.
 
If youre sure the cam timing is correct and everything else is good as far as timing verified and tune then id consider an intake manifold asap. The stock intake is a piece of crap if it hasnt been cut open. Ive gone 10.60 on an 86-89 with a 60-1 and stock valve heads with a bowl cleanup and no porting and a very small 212/212 grind with less than .500 lift. I ran around 30psi to run 127.85mph. The car dynoed in the low 500's at the wheels and was a test bed for various turbos about 2 years ago. Even though i had an intercooler i doubt its gains were much compared to what i would do if i ran an e85 tune. I was on 93/alky. The CR was only 7.5:1 also. Fwiw i didnt have boost creep. I had some boost drop off up top though. At the beginning of 3rd id see 30.4psi (highest reading i got on the 3 bar) and it would taper off to 29-30 out the back of 3rd because the compressor was out of breath. I ran it for all it was worth. If the mass efficiency of the engine is high enough you will run the 60-1 compressor out of breath at 62-63lbs/min. I was around 60lbs/min calculated on the 127.85mph pass. The 60-1 is best around 2.3:1 PR. If you have creeping issues with a 60-1 then your engine mass efficiency isnt too good. That intake manifold is causing a huge bottle neck in the air induction. Changing to the good champion intake will likely result in a huge mass efficiency increase that will result in huge power gains at much lower pressure ratios. The only advantage as far as air flow i had over what you have not including your intake is i had a better compressor cover that complements the compressor better than the stock one you are running.

Apologies for the hi-jack, but is the intake also restrictive on 86-87 cars?
 
^ our HOTAIR Champion ported intakes put the flow right about where the stock 86-87 intake is so NO

as for help, Bison is on as for the intake if its stock. Ported stockers have been 10's. the Champion intake will make a difference for sure. I think there is more going on the just a intake restriction. i will type more tonight when i get home.

just a FYI, with ported heads, intake, bigger turbo, 212/212, headers etc i went low 11's no problem.
 
Rafs-T-Type said:
Apologies for the hi-jack, but is the intake also restrictive on 86-87 cars?

No. 86-89 I had a cleaned up stock intake with the injector pad and port squared at the outlet and egr tower milled out. Nothing else. With the cut open and gutted/recontoured 84-85 it will out flow an untouched 86-89 and be just about as good as a ported 86-89. The 86-89 intake will flow more than any iron head out there with a simple clean up of the port exit. No polishing needed
 
I would wonder if you have enough fuel with running e85 with an 80 pound injector especially seeing 30#'s of boost, the smallest I've ever ran since going to E85 was 120's injectors and the duty cycle was still up there. Not horrible very safe, but the more boost the more fuel and more injector. Also just curious why would you still be using alcohol with the E85? Reason why I throw that out there, whenever we tried alcohol per say and had too much it would make the car bog and run slow because it was too much.. Could be the issue? I'm not a hundred percent sure but something you might want to consider. I think the rest of the combo is strong and should produce the number you're seeking.. What suspension, converter, gear do you run. This also plays into it a lot as I'm finding this year. I can relate make a couple changes and it seems to be a completely different set up and not what I had planned. Hope you figure it out.
 
I did some more playing on the dyno. Noticed a few interesting things. 1st...the stock manifold unported does nothing but cause boost to rise past 5300rpm. So keeping the dyno runs to only 5300 I was able to safely tune the car in on 28psi. Now yes my numbers are still low, but it came in at 331whp and 372wtq. Now I really do feel that is from the manifold just not wanting to flow. I am seeing only about 8.6whp per psi. I'm forcing the turbo to make power and its just not efficient. Also I am leaving alot of power on the table because I will not touch fueling. It seems my single pump is loosing pressure. This is causing AFR (this is in Gas terms, I tune according to LAMBDA off my cars wideband) to rise from 10.3 (lowest the dyno reads) to 11.2 by 5300. If i could keep a more constant AFR i would pick up significant power I feel. Might be time to go after a TT wideband chip and a powerlogger... seems to be the more economical way then going with FAST XFI.
 
Also I'm porting my extra manifold. Its pretty time consuming, but I hope to have it done this week. And I'm looking into upgrading the fuel system as well once the tests with the manifold are complete.
 
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