BlackMetal
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2005
UNGN said it best, in certain cases you will make a corner faster with a certain degree of slip occuring, but NOT the extreme sliding that takes place in drifting.
Had a conversation about Drifting today...
- Thread starter Brer Rabbit
- Start date
turbofish38
Le Pétomane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
If you ever watch some of the professional competitions you might not think of it as such a joke. Some of these guys are sliding through turns with another car in front of them and getting 4-5 inches apart. I know the cars get close to each other in track racing too but things can get a little trickier when your car is sliding sideways.
Sometimes someone will lose control and spin out and you'd swear you're about to see an awesome wreck but the other drivers are almost always skilled enough to avoid a collision, it's pretty impressive.
I don't have a problem with it, it's something new. Life would get boring if nobody every tried something different. Instead of building and tuning for all-out speed it's more about suspension and the individual drivers spending so much time with their car that they know how to control it even when sliding at 45MPH.
I bet you got a chub writing that.Sounded like it anyway.LOL
Most of the non-Asian pro drivers got their start in WRC and Rally. They just defected over to the easy pickings in ProDrift of FormulaDrift, whatever they call the money end of it. They are only in for the money in other words. It would probaly pick up more support if it wasn't portrayed as a lifestyle by the dweebs and teeny weineys. Personally I cant get into it knowing it's roots are a Japaneese sub-culture. Aint nothing I couldn't be perfect at given some seat time. And I'll admit I've been doing some of it in the vacant parking lots of the airport down the road from me. Give me enough concrete and I'll show you how it's done with a Riviera too! You know every once in awhile I read GM's Ecotec on line newsletter. Some pretty amazing stuff being built and run(can't call it racing). GM Tuner Source Blog — GM Tuner SourceI bet if drifting was around 20 years ago you'd see some GNs and factory support.
BlackMetal
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2005
I bet you got a chub writing that.Sounded like it anyway.LOL
I bet if drifting was around 20 years ago you'd see some GNs and factory support.
Wow, talk about getting a chubby while you're posting, don't pump yourself up too much there big guy.
I'm sure you could be perfect at it with some seat time! I was simply making a point that everyone talking trash about it in this thread made it sound like it involves 5 teenagers in an abandoned parking lot, and that they probably haven't even seen 30 seconds of an actual competition. But that's pretty common around here, if it isn't something red-blooded and American as apple pie you're free to make fun of it, whether or not you know anything about it. What did I expect at a Buick forum...
Personally I'm not a big drift fan, I'm openly admitting that I had the same negative opinion about it until I finally caught an actual competition on TV and saw that it can be pretty intense/interesting. I was simply urging others to give it a chance.
All the old coots around here need to stop being so cranky about imports and any form of racing that involves going around turns. Yes there are millions of "ricers" out there, but you can also tastefully modify an import and get impressive performance out of it.
I'd expect the Buick community to be more accepting of "different" things, considering we're the weirdos who think we can go fast with a V6 and a turbo instead of a V8. I'm sure some of you thought you were hot crap in the 80s when you were smoking V8s, and these days there's plenty of 4cyl turbo imports that can smoke them too. Maybe some of us are just a little bitter.
The problem I have with the whole drifting thing is that too many people put it on the same level with actual racing, when in reality, it's all about showmanship. You get movies out like the Tokyo Drift and driving games that feature it, then you have a whole group of kids who want to run out and build "drift-cars" who think they're something special in the racing realm. I have no problem with the guys who do it right. Just hate the turds who think they're a "race car driver" because they can make their rear tires slide in a corner. Drifting is entertaining to watch and fun to try, but it doesn't take a fast car to do it, and it sure ain't racing.
And regarding the whole 4-cyl thing... Heck, I'd love to have an STI, EVO or a Mazdaspeed 3. Even the new Dodge Caliber SRT4 bosts some pretty decent performance. I don't think any of us bash the "tuners" who can post some decent times... but 90% of the ones you see around town are nothing more than a loud exhaust, a colorful intake, and tons of gauges that light up but don't work. The problem is, the guys driving them don't realize that they're still slow. I don't know of too many GN's that aren't quicker than your average street car... but when I can go to the drag strip and race Civic after Civic (sometimes with the seats pulled out, big fins on the trunk, etc...etc..) in my stock SUV and win or come darn close, I get annoyed.
---Ron
And regarding the whole 4-cyl thing... Heck, I'd love to have an STI, EVO or a Mazdaspeed 3. Even the new Dodge Caliber SRT4 bosts some pretty decent performance. I don't think any of us bash the "tuners" who can post some decent times... but 90% of the ones you see around town are nothing more than a loud exhaust, a colorful intake, and tons of gauges that light up but don't work. The problem is, the guys driving them don't realize that they're still slow. I don't know of too many GN's that aren't quicker than your average street car... but when I can go to the drag strip and race Civic after Civic (sometimes with the seats pulled out, big fins on the trunk, etc...etc..) in my stock SUV and win or come darn close, I get annoyed.
---Ron
Wow, talk about getting a chubby while you're posting, don't pump yourself up too much there big guy.
I was simply making a point that everyone talking trash about it in this thread made it sound like it involves 5 teenagers in an abandoned parking lot, and that they probably haven't even seen 30 seconds of an actual competition. But that's pretty common around here, if it isn't something red-blooded and American as apple pie you're free to make fun of it, whether or not you know anything about it. What did I expect at a Buick forum...
Personally I'm not a big drift fan, I'm openly admitting that I had the same negative opinion about it until I finally caught an actual competition on TV and saw that it can be pretty intense/interesting. I was simply urging others to give it a chance.
All the old coots around here need to stop being so cranky about imports and any form of racing that involves going around turns. Yes there are millions of "ricers" out there, but you can also tastefully modify an import and get impressive performance out of it.
I'd expect the Buick community to be more accepting of "different" things, considering we're the weirdos who think we can go fast with a V6 and a turbo instead of a V8. I'm sure some of you thought you were hot crap in the 80s when you were smoking V8s, and these days there's plenty of 4cyl turbo imports that can smoke them too. Maybe some of us are just a little bitter.
Got a little chip on your shoulder or what? I can't speak for anyone but myself. My problem with the whole 'ricer' movement is that, in my opinion, the VAST majority of the 'ricer' crowd have watched Fast & Furious and think there bone stock Civics that they have put stripes, a Folgers can exhaust tip, and a triple decker wing on can run 11's or even 10's. They think they are just a 50 shot of 'NAWWWS' away from 9's because Gino did it in F & F. Again...my opinions based on what I see and hear. Of course there are some very quick 'ricers' out there. I never said or would think there wasn't. But they are VERY few and VERY far between.
I used to do drifting on hall roads. For those of you unfamiliar with this "hick" term, it's a wide gravel road that is designed for coal trucks to hall their loads out of the deep boonies. So when I was 16 and bored, me and some friends would load up in this piece of 5hit diesel wagon and we'd go slinging around these corners. Anyone familiar with gravel knows that you can slide pretty easy, well this heavy diesel wagon was underpowered so you'de have to "push" it. Going about 50mph you could slide through turns, it didn't have enought power to slide out (most of the time) but had enough torque to get sideways or as the new kids on the block say "drift". The same technique applies to snow and also quadracer on dirt, snow...but gravel and quadracers don't mix. Trust me on that one.
This is absolutely true. Anyone that has any experience trying to get a 4 wheeled vehicle around a course quickly will in a matter of laps realize that any amount of sliding that requires a counter steer generally slows you down big time.
If you are familiar with road racing you understand the concept of a traction circle and know that a tire can only do one thing at a time very effectively. Brake, accelerate, turn left or turn right. Once you are sliding you have gone from static friction/rolling friction to sliding friction. Sliding friction basically eliminates any benefit from having larger tires because sliding friction is not affected by surface area.
What you are doing is wasting energy by converting it into heat.
This is not to say that all sliding is bad. A lot of cars need to rotate slightly to go quickly around a turn. The sensation is not that of a "Drift" though.
My real world experience is with Karts, and there you very quickly see other karts pull away from you if you get more loose than the feeling of "rotation" in the turns. It's seriously the quickest way to lose a race in one turn.
For loose surfaces, this stuff doesn't really apply.
A few years ago, the DFW Buick club had a "free day" at Malibu Grand Prix.
We drove so much that day, that I actually wore a hole in the palm of my hand, but it was worth it.
One of the tracks they have is a "Slick track" with hard compound tires on a polished track surface. Absolutely, positively the fastest way around that track with those karts was to start a slide in the first turn and drift as much of the course as you could.
The Karts were set up to have power off understeer, but power on oversteer. If you went into a corner too fast off the gas, it would plow to the outside of the turn. If you went into a corner at the same speed, but on the gas, you could point the kart where you wanted to go and use the forward traction to keep the kart off the outside wall.
When you did a good drift, you could run away from the rest of the karts. By the end of the day, I was lapping the field sideways.
It wasn't just the drifting that was making me faster, it was the extra speed that was making me have to drift.
We drove so much that day, that I actually wore a hole in the palm of my hand, but it was worth it.
One of the tracks they have is a "Slick track" with hard compound tires on a polished track surface. Absolutely, positively the fastest way around that track with those karts was to start a slide in the first turn and drift as much of the course as you could.
The Karts were set up to have power off understeer, but power on oversteer. If you went into a corner too fast off the gas, it would plow to the outside of the turn. If you went into a corner at the same speed, but on the gas, you could point the kart where you wanted to go and use the forward traction to keep the kart off the outside wall.
When you did a good drift, you could run away from the rest of the karts. By the end of the day, I was lapping the field sideways.
It wasn't just the drifting that was making me faster, it was the extra speed that was making me have to drift.
BuickMike231
60% of the time, it works every time.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2007
What was funny about that was the stock car was faster than the drift car in some sections of the track too. I'll never knock people who do it, since I hang out with a few guys into it. It's not my thing, but at least they're into cars, and either way it is entertaining to watch....for a while at least.
Junior Samples
Walk Away
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
I was reading through all these post drifting in and out of consciousness untill i seen Scotts pic..coolbeans
87we410877
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
Pitzpoy seems to be on the "Ricer" Rampage. Let me clear something up here. You cant drift a front wheel drive car. Ruling out all the civics. The only imports you can drift are 240sx, 300ZX, RX-7's, supras, skylines, and a few more i probably forgot. The 240 in japan came with 205HP stock in the s13, 240 in the s14 and 260 in the s15. Thats nothing to shake a stick at. Not to mention the supras and turbo RX-7. All the 240sx's would run down a stock TB any day of the week. Im not to familiar with the supras and RX-7 or 300ZX but im sure they could hold their own as well.
Drifting with control and at high speeds is a hell of alot harder than going straight. And you dont have to worry about ricers on the track cuz they are all still up at the 711 talking about nitrous. In my opinion, anything RWD isnt rice.
Drifting with control and at high speeds is a hell of alot harder than going straight. And you dont have to worry about ricers on the track cuz they are all still up at the 711 talking about nitrous. In my opinion, anything RWD isnt rice.
Yeah I'm not disrespecting the cars or the event. There are certainly some bad-ass drift cars out there and most of the JDM rear wheel drive sports cars can be pretty awesome when done right.
I think what ends up happening is that the majority of a certain "clique" of car enthusiasts, be it Turbo Buick guys, Neon guys, JDM drift guys, etc... tend to not venture very far outside of the realm of where their car competes. So a lot of people are kind of in the dark as to what is out there. I for instance was completely clueless about driving (with turns and braking
) until only just a couple of years ago because I had my head so wrapped up in domestic drag racing. Now I can respect not only a fast dragstrip TR but a spec class Miata aswell.The problem I have is that drifting has an image issue. A lot of people seem to think that drifting is a means of driving fast. It is not. It is a display of car control in an "artful" form (which of course is subjective). Its like the difference between track and field events and gymnastic routines. The former has definite measures of performance whereas the latter is judged relatively subjectively. Both require excellent fitness and are deserving of respect but are not the same.
It depends on the corner, the traction and the car.
Spinning in drag racing is slower because you are just accelerating.
To take a corner, you are first decelerating and then accelerating.
A proper drift begins in the deceleration phase of a corner and uses the slide to help slow the car for the corner and to set the car up so it is pointed in the right direction to exit the corner the fastest.
Generally, braking is done in a straight line, before the corner. Drifting a corner can scrub off additional speed, so the corner can actually be entered faster if the corner is drifted, than if you tried to take the same corner without drifting. It's true that the exit speed of the drifting car may be slower than the one that didn't drift, but the drifting car would potentially be able to pass a non drifting car going into the corner, due to his faster entry speed.
Drifting is a cool sport because at least when it became popular a lot of import guys got away from the played out fwd cars. I'm not a huge fan but some of the cars they use can make ridiculous drag cars. Ive owned a few RX7s and they were kinda sick-wit-it!!!
These are all respectable cars in their JDM modded forms.
240z, 300z, AE86 & AE92 Corrola, Datsun 210s, RX2, RX3, RX7, SC300, SC400 MR2, Supra, Toyota Chaser.
How could you not respect them.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVcinX7QiKk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
These are all respectable cars in their JDM modded forms.
240z, 300z, AE86 & AE92 Corrola, Datsun 210s, RX2, RX3, RX7, SC300, SC400 MR2, Supra, Toyota Chaser.
How could you not respect them.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVcinX7QiKk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
