Has anyone ever talked to Dart or Merlin about making a Buick V6 block ???

[kingots2004]

seems to me ta could take all their research and cast a cheap iron block off their aluminum block but hey if ya can get a block for 1800 bucks then who would buy a $4000 block or a $3000 stage 2. just seems like bad bussiness lol

 

[yullose]

I'm patiently waiting for Champion to offer their cast iron block. From what I've heard it might be around ~$2800. Last I heard it is still in the works...

That would be a start... but $2800 is still pretty steep for a bare block...

If they were closer to $1500, they might have a better chance of selling a bunch.

Put it to y'all like this...

If I could buy a replacement aftermarket iron block for $1500... then I'd consider keeping a Buick V6 under the hood... but if the cost gets much over that, it just doesn't make any sense... especially when I can take a junkyard 350sbc and make 1000hp using a stock, dime a dozen 4 bolt block.

 

[grocerygetter]

heck...sbc...yeah...LSx stuff looks real nice too.

 

[turboc87gn]

That would be a start... but $2800 is still pretty steep for a bare block...

If they were closer to $1500, they might have a better chance of selling a bunch.

Put it to y'all like this...

If I could buy a replacement aftermarket iron block for $1500... then I'd consider keeping a Buick V6 under the hood... but if the cost gets much over that, it just doesn't make any sense... especially when I can take a junkyard 350sbc and make 1000hp using a stock, dime a dozen 4 bolt block.

You could but that defeats the whole purpose the whole point is to kick major a$$ with the little engine that could..a 109 can get you in the nines reliably if you wanna go faster then its pay to play its just like building a mopar or pontiac or v8 buick, aftermarket blocks are $$$$$ if you wanna go fast cheap then start with a regular regal so if you cut and hack and or crash it tryin to go 8s or better you dont mess up you $12,000 + car.. and put a chevy motor in it.. any body with basic car knowledge can throw together a basic chevy/ford el cheapo package nitrous there way into the 10s and look like everyone else we all know what happens when one of those guys trys to work on a turbo buick

 

[gnxtc2]

seems to me ta could take all their research and cast a cheap iron block off their aluminum block but hey if ya can get a block for 1800 bucks then who would buy a $4000 block or a $3000 stage 2. just seems like bad bussiness lol

The casting/molds are different between iron and aluminum. The aluminum molds are cheaper to make but material is more. Iron molds cost more but the material is cheaper.

I won't hold my breathe on Champion's iron block costing below $3000.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Grumpy]

our little 231s have been out of production for 20+ years . the performance "guy's" left are dwindling to . The "show and shiners" are now entering the market and restoring the cars that have NEVER BEEN RACED Its a dieing breed. Can't compare a Chebby to a Buick. They made more Chebbys than Buicks as I have been pecking out this post :biggrin:

 

[dr_frankenstein]

... OR the oddballs that try to make them fast.

hey! thats not funny!

LOL

yea it is.

got a soft spot for 60*s

A.j.

 

[Mike Licht]

That would be a start... but $2800 is still pretty steep for a bare block...

If they were closer to $1500, they might have a better chance of selling a bunch.

Put it to y'all like this...

If I could buy a replacement aftermarket iron block for $1500... then I'd consider keeping a Buick V6 under the hood... but if the cost gets much over that, it just doesn't make any sense... especially when I can take a junkyard 350sbc and make 1000hp using a stock, dime a dozen 4 bolt block.

Start looking for a Chevy block, a Buick block in that price range simply cannot be built. It is simple economics of scale, todays market is just too small to cover the expense of doing it at all. Here are some simple numbers, tooling $50K, rough casting $400 machine work $700 this is based on 100 blocks So now you have around $1600 each invested and $160,000 investment, you still do not have crates, storage and shiping between facilities figured in which will push the cost close to $2000 each. Now as a business man I need to figure out what a reasonable profit is that would intrest me to invest $200K plus and how long it is going to take to get my money back? in other words how long is it going to take to sell 100 blocks at that price. If your making 500 blocks at a time that brings the price down 700 or so a block but to be honest I do not believe 500 more blocks will ever be sold certainly not in a 6 month to 1 year time frame that would justify some large investment. Now we could go to China and hit your price point....... but we wont go there
Mike

 

[yullose]

Start looking for a Chevy block, a Buick block in that price range simply cannot be built. It is simple economics of scale, todays market is just too small to cover the expense of doing it at all. Here are some simple numbers, tooling $50K, rough casting $400 machine work $700 this is based on 100 blocks So now you have around $1600 each invested and $160,000 investment, you still do not have crates, storage and shiping between facilities figured in which will push the cost close to $2000 each. Now as a business man I need to figure out what a reasonable profit is that would intrest me to invest $200K plus and how long it is going to take to get my money back? in other words how long is it going to take to sell 100 blocks at that price. If your making 500 blocks at a time that brings the price down 700 or so a block but to be honest I do not believe 500 more blocks will ever be sold certainly not in a 6 month to 1 year time frame that would justify some large investment. Now we could go to China and hit your price point....... but we wont go there
Mike

Any idea what ever happened to all the molds and tooling from the GM produced blocks ???

That would be a pretty decent score if someone could snatch that stuff up.

I thought about calling a few of my "connections" down in Nascar territory to see if I can dig up some old Arca series Buick parts... There should still be a ton of stage2 stuff floating around Mooresville NC.

 

[Mike Licht]

Any idea what ever happened to all the molds and tooling from the GM produced blocks ???

That would be a pretty decent score if someone could snatch that stuff up..

I know where some of it is but most was destroyed, what is still around is priced too high.

I thought about calling a few of my "connections" down in Nascar territory to see if I can dig up some old Arca series Buick parts... There should still be a ton of stage2 stuff floating around Mooresville NC.

Lot of guys have been doing that for years, not too much left any more. I made a trips south back in the day myself.
Mike

 

[BEATAV8]

Mike, have you talked with Tom about the Champion block recently? What have you heard about timing/availability?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Start looking for a Chevy block, a Buick block in that price range simply cannot be built. It is simple economics of scale, todays market is just too small to cover the expense of doing it at all. Here are some simple numbers, tooling $50K, rough casting $400 machine work $700 this is based on 100 blocks So now you have around $1600 each invested and $160,000 investment, you still do not have crates, storage and shiping between facilities figured in which will push the cost close to $2000 each. Now as a business man I need to figure out what a reasonable profit is that would intrest me to invest $200K plus and how long it is going to take to get my money back? in other words how long is it going to take to sell 100 blocks at that price. If your making 500 blocks at a time that brings the price down 700 or so a block but to be honest I do not believe 500 more blocks will ever be sold certainly not in a 6 month to 1 year time frame that would justify some large investment. Now we could go to China and hit your price point....... but we wont go there
Mike

I have no shame and would be plenty happy to buy a block made in china. I have known alot of people who have had production runs of there stuff made in china. as long as the quality control is tight then it usually is just as good if not better than american.

A.j.

 

[Mike Licht]

Mike, have you talked with Tom about the Champion block recently? What have you heard about timing/availability?

I have not realy heard anything, I assume Tom is in no hurry to invest a large chunk of cash in this ecomomy
Mike

 

[SGRIM]

I have not realy heard anything, I assume Tom is in no hurry to invest a large chunk of cash in this ecomomy
Mike

Can't blame him for that!!!

 

[Mike Licht]

I have no shame and would be plenty happy to buy a block made in china. I have known alot of people who have had production runs of there stuff made in china. as long as the quality control is tight then it usually is just as good if not better than american.

A.j.

I agree with your comments but I doubt any Buick vendor would be willing to invest in a china made block and take the verbal beat down he would get for doing it no matter how good it was. There are products being sold now that are made there with little american flags stuck to them to avoid that issue. If someone is going to do that it will not be me.
Mike

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I agree with your comments but I doubt any Buick vendor would be willing to invest in a china made block and take the verbal beat down he would get for doing it no matter how good it was. There are products being sold now that are made there with little american flags stuck to them to avoid that issue. If someone is going to do that it will not be me.
Mike

I totally understand, its become a hard market to please, any move is going to definitly catch flak. But this is already a dying group - it would be nice to keep it alive.

A cheep block would be our best hope for a long term future.

This is a great thread.

Cheers.

:biggrin: A.j.

 

[turboc87gn]

I dunno how true this is but i was told the n/a blocks are the same as the turbo ones except for the hole for turbo oiling provision isnt there how hard is it to add it? would this be a possibility for more blocks if a vendor was to turn regular ones into turbo ones theres still quite a few n/a v6s laying around....

 

[BEATAV8]

I dunno how true this is but i was told the n/a blocks are the same as the turbo ones except for the hole for turbo oiling provision isnt there how hard is it to add it? would this be a possibility for more blocks if a vendor was to turn regular ones into turbo ones theres still quite a few n/a v6s laying around....

That's true.. 109 blocks were used for both N/A and turbo. But what most everybody wants is tough 14 bolt (14 head bolts) block like the old stage blocks.

 

[nick s]

let me no if u need 75 people 2git some block made i will put some money down for a 4bolt main block we need 2 go 2 every1 if we git 3or4 different companies 2 make them n every1 has a choice then all the blocks will come down

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

My experience with reproducing parts goes back to the original GTO. Mike and others have hit on the real reason in previous posts,.....its a game of numbers and the numbers will not justify spending the big bucks for tooling.

Here is a simple item we made years ago around 1992. Every 1964-67 GTO has a small plastic emergency brake handle.... a simple part. I had it made exact in the US. Back then the price tag for the tooling...I could have bought a brand new S10 truck. Plus I had to realize what can a brake handle sell for? Can't sell for more than $10 otherwise no one would buy it? Plus most of the sales would be wholesale to all the big vendors otherwise one of them would make it.

The saving grace was when I researched the project I discovered that the GTO handle was push on however, if I threaded it, it would be 100% correct EVERY 1964-1967 CHEVELLE.....bingo....I made the brake handle.

And the rest they say is history.....as for China.....personally I have never had anything made over there...certainily don't wanna put anything in your mouth from china.....

From what I have been told, yes they can score on quality that you expect the issues can change however when you go to get a second production run done. Sometimes the main company over there farms it out to a smaller company that does it cheaper so company #1 can make money with no work. Problem is quality drops so second shipment may be not up to what you expect.

Its like anything else you gotta be on your toes. Almost every diecast model you buy has come from China. Quality is pretty good...they certainly are not running out in the parking lot to check the diecast against a real matching car......

Take Mustang and Chevy everything exists for them because of the numbers game. Frankly I am amazed that so much already has been reproduced for our cars and I am sure more will come down the pike.....but the economy has to turn around.....

That is what makes used parts that Gbodyparts etc have so valuable. Supply and demand.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

One of the big money makers is probably the printing company in China that cranks out all those made in china labels.