Headgasket installation with Studs

tonysmach

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I am almost ready to re-install my heads using RJC bullet proof head gasket and ARP studs with hex nuts. I will be using Permatex ultra black as my thread sealant. The block is still in the engine bay so I will have to place the head gasket on the block, then the head and then screw in the studs. Should I place sealant in the bolt cavity before I place the head on and then screw the studs in. Or should I place the head on the block, leave the bolt cavity dry and put sealant on stud threads and then screw through head and into block. My concern is the build up of sealant between the head and block. Any suggestions? What works best.
 

LOT

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sealant

I would (using a Q-tip) put a small amount DOWN in the hole all the way into the threads. Install head--put a full coating on the stud thread and thenn screw stud in fully. The threads on a 109 are recessed so there is where your excess, if any, will go. I would not worry about it. 80 FT. LBS. of torque will take care of it. Once you start--finish --don't let it set for any amount of time. Best of luck.
 
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mygn276

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You need to screw in your studs first using Thread sealer on the studs. Make sure everything is clean. Then do the gaskets and then the heads.:wink:
 

mygn276

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You need to screw in your studs first using Thread sealer on the studs. Make sure everything is clean. Then do the gaskets and then the heads.:wink:
If you still have heater box. then disregard my comment.
 

Audie1

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I am almost ready to re-install my heads using RJC bullet proof head gasket and ARP studs with hex nuts. I will be using Permatex ultra black as my thread sealant. The block is still in the engine bay so I will have to place the head gasket on the block, then the head and then screw in the studs. Should I place sealant in the bolt cavity before I place the head on and then screw the studs in. Or should I place the head on the block, leave the bolt cavity dry and put sealant on stud threads and then screw through head and into block. My concern is the build up of sealant between the head and block. Any suggestions? What works best.
See the link below, it worked really well for me. I could not find Loctite 567. I found out that Loctite is apart of Permatex. The 567 was replaced with the High Temp Sealant at the link below. The how-to article below was put up by one of our members. I don't know his name right off, but he done a good job explaining sealing head studs..........Hope this helps you out. :)

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/thread_compounds/a_thread_sealants/auto_Permatex_High_Temperature_Thread_Sealant.htm

http://www.turbobuicks.com/articles/HeadStuds/
 

JayC

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Why not just use Teflon paste?

Also, with that setup, you need to let the heads sit for a couple of hours and then retorque. Helps squeeze the excess sealant out.
 

tonysmach

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See the link below, it worked really well for me. I could not find Loctite 567. I found out that Loctite is apart of Permatex. The 567 was replaced with the High Temp Sealant at the link below. The how-to article below was put up by one of our members. I don't know his name right off, but he done a good job explaining sealing head studs..........Hope this helps you out. :)

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/thread_compounds/a_thread_sealants/auto_Permatex_High_Temperature_Thread_Sealant.htm

TurboBuicks.com - Head Studs That Don't Leak!
Yes, I have that write-up. Only difference is the write-up assumes the engine is out of car. Do you think it is necessary to clean off the black oxide on head studs like the write-up states?
 

tonysmach

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Why not just use Teflon paste?

Also, with that setup, you need to let the heads sit for a couple of hours and then retorque. Helps squeeze the excess sealant out.
Will it be necessary to run engines through a couple heat cycles and then remove dpipe and headers and re-torque? You are saying because of using the ultra black RTV, I should re-torque after a couple of hours of completing the installation. If this, means I don't have to re-torque after a couple of heat cycles, that would be good because it is a PITA taking off the headers.
 

LOT

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Because

Why not just use Teflon paste?

Also, with that setup, you need to let the heads sit for a couple of hours and then retorque. Helps squeeze the excess sealant out.
Teflon paste is more of a lubricant than sealant.
 

Audie1

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Yes, I have that write-up. Only difference is the write-up assumes the engine is out of car. Do you think it is necessary to clean off the black oxide on head studs like the write-up states?
If at all possible I would try to take a wire wheel to the end of the studs that go into the engine, and then clean them off with brake cleaner or what not. Doing this ensures adhesion of the Permatex to the stud for a better seal. Also make sure to run a tap down the stud holes so that you will be able to get an accurate torque setting. I'm sure you already know this though. I would also clean out the stud passages on the heads of all residual sealant, so that it does not get all over the threads when inserting the studs through them. :)
 

Audie1

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Will it be necessary to run engines through a couple heat cycles and then remove dpipe and headers and re-torque? You are saying because of using the ultra black RTV, I should re-torque after a couple of hours of completing the installation. If this, means I don't have to re-torque after a couple of heat cycles, that would be good because it is a PITA taking off the headers.
I would do a re-torque also, and yes it is a PITA for sure. Almost everytime that I have done a re-torque the middle four nuts/bolts have been the ones that seem to need the re-torquing. Not retorquing is asking for trouble IMO, if you are going to be pushing any boost anyways. :smile:
 

JayC

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Will it be necessary to run engines through a couple heat cycles and then remove dpipe and headers and re-torque? You are saying because of using the ultra black RTV, I should re-torque after a couple of hours of completing the installation. If this, means I don't have to re-torque after a couple of heat cycles, that would be good because it is a PITA taking off the headers.
No.. Im saying that if youre using the "bulletproof headgasket setup" from RJC then you need to put the heads on, torque them and then once you reach the final torque specs, walk away for 3 or 4 hours and then come back and retorque them again. Retorqueing after a heat cycle is not necessary.
 

Audie1

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No.. Im saying that if youre using the "bulletproof headgasket setup" from RJC then you need to put the heads on, torque them and then once you reach the final torque specs, walk away for 3 or 4 hours and then come back and retorque them again. Retorqueing after a heat cycle is not necessary.
That is exactly what Jason (RJC) says to do (heat cycle and retorque). It also states in bold letters on the instruction sheet for the gaskets (to heat cycle and retorque). I don 't think that anyone enjoys dropping the exhaust and removing the rocker pedestal to retorque the head bolts/studs. I know that you are one of the "Big Dwags" Jay........So it may be worth a try to do as you say and retorque after a few hours. We could always retorque later using the RJC's, if they started to whistle or what not on down the road. :)
 

Razor

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have you seen where you put a couple heat guns on the water passages to heat up the motor.. once the head gets nice and hot.. go and retorque.

Doing one side at a time.. heat guns on the head water passages front/rear
 
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tonysmach

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The thread has been helpful. Re-torquing is needed but some have different ideas when to do it. Has anyone modified the header by cutting away some of it where the headstud protudes to be able to re-torque the heads without removing the headers?
 

JayC

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That is exactly what Jason (RJC) says to do (heat cycle and retorque). It also states in bold letters on the instruction sheet for the gaskets (to heat cycle and retorque). I don 't think that anyone enjoys dropping the exhaust and removing the rocker pedestal to retorque the head bolts/studs. I know that you are one of the "Big Dwags" Jay........So it may be worth a try to do as you say and retorque after a few hours. We could always retorque later using the RJC's, if they started to whistle or what not on down the road. :)
Youre not hearing me out. You do NOT need to retorque after a heat cycle. You DO need toretorque abotu 3 or 4 hours after initial installation.

Keep in mind I'M the one that came up with this setup. I was using it for years before RJC "borrowed" it and started marketing it. I've done countless cars with this setup and trial and errored lots of different sealants before settling on what people are using now.

If you want to retorque after heat cycle, knock yourself out. I never have and outside of something stupid happening, Ive never had this setup fail. In fact, in all the years Ive been using this setup (20 years almost), I know of 3 failures that I installed. All were north of 28 PSI and lean conditions. Nothing short of welding the heads on is going to save that.
 
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Razor

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I've heard that and may even try it out. I imagine that it would take awhile to heat up?
Probably a lot less time than it will take to tear things apart after their together. And those heat guns put out a lot of heat really quick. I doubt it can hurt, best case everything settles with the heat

In this game its whatever floats your boat. A dozen+ ways of doing this, ultimately its your spin on the wheel and see what works for you.
 

buttonfly

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I retorqued after 3-4 hours, then checked again after letting it sit over night. I have had them on since 07' with no problems. Hell of a setup...............I think you might listen to Jay on this one. You wont be disappointed with them.
 

JayC

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I retorqued after 3-4 hours, then checked again after letting it sit over night. I have had them on since 07' with no problems. Hell of a setup...............I think you might listen to Jay on this one. You wont be disappointed with them.
They ALWAYS need retorqueing a few hours later. My installation process is a little different than how RJC says to put them on. I use my finger and just goop the stuff on and smear it with my finger. Ive never used the paint roller setup,which might get you thinner applications. The delayed retorque squishes out what doesnt get pushed out in the initial torque cycle. The stuff is thick, it takes a while to find its way out.
 
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