I'm just curious how fast some have gone without Billet mains? My new motor will have stock caps, crank, rods, but ARP fastners on all and Wiseco forged pistons. I'm just liiking to have a mid 11 second car, but I'm curious as to how hard others have pushed their cars with this type of combo before breaking something?
How fast can you comfortable go with stock crank, rods, and mains?
- Thread starter BuickMike
- Start date
BlackBandit
God loves Buicks!
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
How fast ??? depends on the weight of the car and the 60' times. If you have a light car.. say 3100 lbs (no driver), it will go a half second faster than a car that weighs 3600 lbs. Anyway. A guy that says he went 10.70 with a 3600 lb car and stock bottom end could go 10.20 with the same motor/boost being lighter. lighten that buick and go fast with less HP/ boost !!!! Steve
I had a piston failure at around 700hp. Car went 10.29@133.4 at 28.5psi. The failure occurred after 3 mos. of running it over 30psi. 3600+lbs. The caps and rest of the bottom end were in much better shape than i expected. Minimal cap walk. The bottom was as assembled from GM and had about 150k on it
Good to know. My car is 3600lbs. I will be running on the TE-44 for a long time, however one day I will upgrade and I'd like to think my motor will be able to handle low 11's / high 10's without issue.
Dave Levey
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Properly tuned a stock shortblock will be fine to low 11's high tens(525-550hp), faster then that it become a question of time before things go south, I probably had 40-50 600hp passes on my shortblock before the rods let loose.
Stock mains,rods,crank
The stock bottom end can deal with a lot torque for what it is.Knock,detonation & pre-ignition are homewreckers which behave like a slap rather than a push.A boosted engine with normal combustion has a rounded cusp on the component load curve vs a pointed cusp on the load curve for an improper combustion.Castings are subject to inclusions and a finite performance endurance limit.Some castings may have fewer inclusions than others.Castings will not live forever.Some folks are lucky and their castings live under high load a long time.The rolled fillets on the cast crankshaft are a life saver.Balancing the stock components will lengthen their lifespan and assist their abilities to deal with load.Balancing reduces/eliminates undesirable vibrations relating to both how well the engine "builds" and reduces tensile & compressive forces.This is done through lightening the heavier connecting rods and pistons to the weight of the lightest one.Maybe lighter wrist pins etc.Elimination of stress risers on components reduces component fractures.Weight reduction & balancing will allow a few hundred more rpm.I'm not convinced that the stock "SPS" rod bolts can't handle the tensile loads of the stock piston flying around at 5600 rpm.Stock casting failure is directly relative to 1) improper combustion, 2) unpredictable inclusions/fractures,3) the finite performance endurance limit of a cast component has been exceded.This is done by increasing loads for longer durations of time.Castings accumulate their loads and eventually fail.I don't think a stock bottom end will fail at the 500 hp level "for a while" provided combustion is controlled and you're lucky.There have been those people with gutted cars and great castings that have run 10's for a season.These folks are the exception to the rule.
The stock bottom end can deal with a lot torque for what it is.Knock,detonation & pre-ignition are homewreckers which behave like a slap rather than a push.A boosted engine with normal combustion has a rounded cusp on the component load curve vs a pointed cusp on the load curve for an improper combustion.Castings are subject to inclusions and a finite performance endurance limit.Some castings may have fewer inclusions than others.Castings will not live forever.Some folks are lucky and their castings live under high load a long time.The rolled fillets on the cast crankshaft are a life saver.Balancing the stock components will lengthen their lifespan and assist their abilities to deal with load.Balancing reduces/eliminates undesirable vibrations relating to both how well the engine "builds" and reduces tensile & compressive forces.This is done through lightening the heavier connecting rods and pistons to the weight of the lightest one.Maybe lighter wrist pins etc.Elimination of stress risers on components reduces component fractures.Weight reduction & balancing will allow a few hundred more rpm.I'm not convinced that the stock "SPS" rod bolts can't handle the tensile loads of the stock piston flying around at 5600 rpm.Stock casting failure is directly relative to 1) improper combustion, 2) unpredictable inclusions/fractures,3) the finite performance endurance limit of a cast component has been exceded.This is done by increasing loads for longer durations of time.Castings accumulate their loads and eventually fail.I don't think a stock bottom end will fail at the 500 hp level "for a while" provided combustion is controlled and you're lucky.There have been those people with gutted cars and great castings that have run 10's for a season.These folks are the exception to the rule.
My motor will be balanced with forged pistons and ARP fastners. Sounds like if I tune it right I won't have anything to worry about if I pull off a couple high 10 second passes here and there. Considering my budget I'll be living with my TE-44 for several years to come, so mid 11's will be the best I can muster for a long time.
I wouldnt doubt i had at least 10 minutes of WOT at over 30 psi. Ive had 3-5x that at 25-30psi. The engine was in the car for over 2 years of constant flogging. I always ran 110 octane and alky injection. Detonation at 450hp will hurt an engine. You should be able to make hundreds of 10 sec passes on a stock bottom end at 3600 lbs if the tune is good. The stock sps bolts handled 6400 a few times and 6000 regularly. The car went to over 5700 in the quarter. I figure i was at 650hp or more last year and over 700hp at over 30psi.
Search under my user name. I did a thread on it. Unfortunately i had not made any quarter passe over 28.5 psi. XFI and the 9.5"PTC converter made things a lot easier in the past year. All the things you mentioned mean very little since i see a lot of guys with the same or more and they go slower.
Had a stock blok 49 turbo streched intercooler.McCreays,air shosks and street chip.Also fuel pump and guage. Dorve the cat to E-town. No time to cool off went 12.18 at 118 mph. Through 3" exhaust. used 20 pnds. ,18,17
Had the car car another 4 years no problems. Until stolen.Now have white Limited new everything except motor have to sell. Blue interior.
Had the car car another 4 years no problems. Until stolen.Now have white Limited new everything except motor have to sell. Blue interior.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
What about stock pistons and rods, on a forged crank w/ billet mains all the way down?
I dont know anyone who has used a forged crank with stock rods and pistons. I wouldnt be able to sleep if i was making over 650hp and had to be sure the rods and pistons would take it repeatedly.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
I'm not sure I'd be making that kinda HP. I'll be runnin a TA61 on stock heads/cam, on alky.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
I see... so rather than droppin another grand for forged rods, and good pistons, a wideband O2 w/ powerlogger, hood mounted fuel pressure gauge, and an egt guage would be better in the long run?
