How Much HP with STOCK fuel lines/rail?

[kingots2004]

1000 dollar fuel system is cheaper than 5000 dollar engine rebuild ask me how i know

 

[turbofabricator]

1000 dollar fuel system is cheaper than 5000 dollar engine rebuild ask me how i know

Not in Obama's stimulus package! You must not be good at math.

I agree, why risk all that money on a 1/4" feed line? Not worth it to me. It's GREAT if you do it and not have a problem. I love to see how far "stock" stuff can be pushed. Is it fair to say that I have a stock turbo running 127mph? (with ALOT more left in it?) So what if I have two of them? I am still running one Walbro 340 and stock lines to the frame. (-6AN from the frame to rail.) But I am also running 6 alky nozzles, too. They're hidden under the plenum, so no one can see them. But the 2.5 gallon stainless tank gives it away, though.

 

[Kent Buckles]

THANKS all! I agree the extra money for a upgraded fuel system is worth it. I will probably have to put all new stock lines in anyway which is pretty expensive too. I appreciate all of the expeirience and the opinions. I am pushing a fair amount of horsepower but it is just a show car and will not be running at the track. Maybe a quick sprint on the street every once in a while. I also won't be pushing the boost too much, maybe 17 lbs or so. I will probably end up going -8 AN all the way. I am not the best mechanic or fabricator is why I was considering going stock along with a clean appearence under the hood.

 

[Kent Buckles]

Also wondering if anyone has compiled any type of parts list or description on swiching entire system over to braided. (-8 AN) This would help since as stated earlier I am not the best mechanic. Links to this info would be great if anyone knows of any. THANKS again!

 

[forcefed3.8's]

I don't know who it was. A friend of mine is planning on running high 8's this year, and is still running stock fuel lines and a double pumper (with plans on running a 3rd external). We were discussing how far stock lines will go, and that car got brought up. He was running 3 fuel pumps though.

 

[johnplogii]

I was wondering the same thing-if my stock lines & rail would handle the additional power I plan to make this year. Since I run a Red Armstrong double pumper I called him. He told me that his car still runs through stock lines & fuel rail. It has been 9.3x at 150mph. He also stated that he had one customer that went 8.6x through the stock lines at which point the pumps were no longer enough so Red made him a triple pumper! I do plan to run my same setup with a new fuel filter & see how far it will take me.

John

 

[kingots2004]

-8 braided line
fuel cell with sump and sender if ya want a gas gauge
external fuel pump
inline filter
champion fuel rails(2 verisons 1 runs stock type regulator,other runs external)
external regulator
all your AN fittings
fitting to put a fuel pressure gauge inline between your rail and regulator
call summit or someone and they can get you close.

 

[bison]

wow who did that?

I hear crickets

 

[turbofabricator]

At the VERY least, ream the I.D. of the saginaw fittings to as big as you dare. (just don't break through the o-ring segment) I have run the fuel rail fitting with NO o-ring for a long time before. (I tore it at the track and didn't have another one with me, so I just tightened it down. Never leaked and I just left it that way for a long time. Even removing it and reinstalling it a few times. I wouldn't suggest that anyone do that, but that might be how some guys are getting enough fuel through system. Also, check EVERY bend for kinks. They may be kinked from the factory or from someone else doing poor work. I've even seen the feed line to the rail kinked almost closed from people prying the radiator/heater hoses off. I've sen this more than once, too.
When I see guys say they will "give it a try", it scares me. Is your $10,000 motor worth that? A -6AN will feed ALOT of power at 60 psi. -6AN is pretty cheap all being considered.
If your car is mainly a show car, leave it alone. It does support a 600hp car with no issues. (stock fuel lines, that is)
I calculated the cost of a -8AN system with filters and fittings at OVER $1200. (including a big external pump) Lots of ways to do it for cheaper, though. Go to a hydraulic supply shop and buy JIC fittings instead of pretty red/blue anodized aluminum AN. The JIC is ecaxtly the same, except it is cad plated steel or stainless. The hose is usually cheaper, too. Look in your local phone book under "hydraulic supply". If it's under the car, who cares if it isn't a pretty blue fitting. If you are trying to save weight, then use the aluminum stuff. But we are only talking maybe 3 pounds difference.
I also made a dual outlet, double pumper system a couple of years ago. (still haven't installed it) I built it so I could run two -6AN lines through two stock filters, and then tee it after the filters into one -8AN. This way both pumps weren't pumping through a single crimped 3/8" line exiting the tank. (providing you cut the necked down section off inside the tank)
Here are pics: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/215155-new-double-pumper-sending-unit.html Lots of ways to skin a cat. Not that I EVER want to skin a cat, mind you.

 

[johnplogii]

I hear crickets

It sounds to me like the same guy that ran 8.6x & 160mph. Call Red & ask him if you need a name. Red has been around TR's for a couple years now. He did metion to install a new GM fuel filter every year, and also to have the second pump turn on fairly early (5 psi) because all pumps cavitate when first turned on & will put air bubbles in the rail. I also believe that different cars may respond differently depending on the condition of the lines.

John

 

[forcefed3.8's]

This is the same guy.

 

[NCTURBOS]

I hear crickets

Dan & Chris White.... I believe...


K.

 

[turbofabricator]

The Champion fuel rails have a SMALER I.D. than the stock rail does! ODes it matter, though? I don't think so. Use a fitting to relocate the regulator away from the rail and the stock rails should be fine to over 1000 HP. They are BIGGER than the aftermarket rails used by most everyone. JUst scew an adaptor into the front of the rail to feed it a -8AN line (though a -6AN would work to 900+ HP, since the stock fuel lines seem to work to 750+ by some and they are only equal to -4AN) PM me for my number if you would like to discuss the reasons to step up or to keep what you have. If you are an occasional racer and mostly a show car deal, buy stainless replacement lines and stick with it. If you are a serious racer and are in doubt of your system capabilities, then step up and do it right, once. Right could be just a simple replacement of the feed line to a -6AN and use the stock feed line as the return. (or a -8AN feed, too) Then you are only buying one 20 ft. section of hose/tubing. If you are good at bneding and flaring, buy annealed Stainless 3/8" line and build a new steel feed line and use AN (or cheaper JIC) fittings and gain ALOT in cross sectional area, vs. the .257" Saginaw fittings. If these guys are TRULY using STOCK fuel lines, then it is AMAZING that they are pumping THAT much fuel through a 1/4" orafice! (I'm NOT calling anyone a liar, though, it is just amazing!, and SCARY!) At that power level, it seems REAL silly to trust a 1/4" line to feed that much power! Not for me, thanks!

Contact Jay Carter for the adaptor fitting to use an external regulator. Check page 1 of this post for what they look like. He wants to start selling them. Get him to do it for you. I'm too busy to build, market, ship, answer calls....... He can take over for me!

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Dan & Chris White.... I believe...


K.

And I was just informed it was with a double pumper, not a tripple like I thought.

 

[Rodney87GN]

The Champion fuel rails have a SMALER I.D. than the stock rail does!

What is the I.D. diameter of the stock rails compared to the Champion rails?

 

[turbofabricator]

The stock fuel rail is .750" I.D and necks down at each injector bung to .650 I.D. They flatten the rail under each bung to facilitate manufacturing. New cars have HUGE plastic rails now days. What does the OEM know?

 

[Pronto]

With an external regulator, you might be able to solve the #1 cylinder lean out. You can make one of these yourself, or I can make one for you. I have enough parts for 4-5 more. I had a machine shop make parts for me. I just weld them up. A vendor needs to start making/selling these. I am busy at work, and don't have time to deal with alot of people.

This plugs right into the stock fuel rail where the pressure regulator goes, and allows you to run a -6AN to an external regulator.

Where are you mounting the regulator?

 

[Rodney87GN]

The stock fuel rail is .750" I.D and necks down at each inject or bung to .650 I.D. They flatten the rail under each bung to facilitate manufacturing. New cars have HUGE plastic rails now days. What does the OEM know?

Thanks for the info!

 

[Bobtempest]

stock lines

I have 9's for for years now with a double XP pump set up with stock fuel lines.