Intake manifolds

[DailyDrifter]

All with my own hands.
You can't judge a nitrous jet by that top opening. The actual feed orifice is down deep in the jet. Generally, the number stamped on the jet is the size of the orifice in thousandths of an inch. One .030" nitrous jet is good for around 50hp.

Thats great craftsmanship. Looks like the quality of a production piece, actually better than production. You said it is good for 50hp is that an average for the whole nitrous system?

 

[Alky V6]

Thats great craftsmanship. Looks like the quality of a production piece, actually better than production. You said it is good for 50hp is that an average for the whole nitrous system?

Each #30 jet will support 50hp. There are six of them. 6x50=300hp!

 

[DailyDrifter]

Each #30 jet will support 50hp. There are six of them. 6x50=300hp!

Thats what I was thinking. Thats alot of spray I could definalty see the manfiold blowing apart with 300, I pray your poppet valve keeps that thing together in the event of a "mishap"

 

[Alky V6]

Thats what I was thinking. Thats alot of spray I could definalty see the manfiold blowing apart with 300, I pray your poppet valve keeps that thing together in the event of a "mishap"

We'll see. I've already been to a 245hp shot without a problem.

 

[Alky V6]

The parts that have been clear anodized to control corrosion are the following:
Poppet valve outer cover
Radial distribution manifold of the nitrous oxide system
Nitrous oxide injector nozzles
Electronic injector bosses

 

[coach]

Hey Donnie,
Did you give any thought to studs for holding the intake in place? You only need 4-5 threads in the head for full strength. After that it is just wasted turning of a wrench. I bet you could do it pretty easy and then just spin a nut on. I started using studs in place of bolts where ever I could. I love studes for headers. Much easier to install. Regardless your work is very well thought out, and your benchtop mill / drill press should find it way to hot rodders museum someday.

Keep up the good work. Building something with your own hands is much more rewarding than buying it.

Coach

 

[Alky V6]

Hey Donnie,
Did you give any thought to studs for holding the intake in place? You only need 4-5 threads in the head for full strength. After that it is just wasted turning of a wrench. I bet you could do it pretty easy and then just spin a nut on. I started using studs in place of bolts where ever I could. I love studes for headers. Much easier to install. Regardless your work is very well thought out, and your benchtop mill / drill press should find it way to hot rodders museum someday.

Keep up the good work. Building something with your own hands is much more rewarding than buying it.

Coach

I traded the mill/drill machine in for a real milling machine soon after most of the intake was machined. Just goes to show you though, if there is a will, there is a way.

You are so right about building something yourself.

 

[Alky V6]

Now comes the real challenge. I'm going to redesign the internal fuel nozzle delivery system. The main goal is to cut down the internal space volume of the delivery system from the on/off solenoid valve to the nozzles. I'm also toying with an idea to set up a momentary switch system to bleed air from the internal lines before staging. If the nozzles are located higher than most of the system, then a quick activation of the solenoid would purge over 90% of the air from the system. Since the fuel would not easily drain from the system after use, the trapped fuel would need to be cleaned out for storage. Maybe just breaking the outer feed line to atmosphere and activating the solenoid while the engine is runner would be enough to suck the fuel from the internal lines.

The past internal fuel system consisted of a large ID plastic fuel rail that extended from the rear of the plenum to almost the front. The fuel nozzles were mounted to the fuel rail with each nozzle aimed down the middle of an intake port. My new idea is to mount a distribution block at the rear of the plenum (inside) and run small feed lines from the distribution block to each nozzle at each port. Somewhat of a spider manifold delivery system. This would cut the internal space volume of the internal system more than half.

I would need to fabricate a mounting bracket to locate all the nozzles, and instead of a low aiming point into each runner like I've been using, I would need to change to a high aiming point into the runner.

 

[Alky V6]

First off, I need to think up a distribution block that will ensure equal distribution.

 

[six shooter]

Are you opposed to using larger electronic injectors in place of the aux. fuel rail system? Those are 160 lb/hr injectors correct ? I thought I remembered your nozzles added approx. 100 lb/hr each . Is your set up tailored more for drivability then ultimate fuel flow ? I'm guessing your working on removing the lean spike on activation ? Just curious..

 

[DailyDrifter]

Do you have a NANO system?

 

[Alky V6]

Are you opposed to using larger electronic injectors in place of the aux. fuel rail system? Those are 160 lb/hr injectors correct ? I thought I remembered your nozzles added approx. 100 lb/hr each . Is your set up tailored more for drivability then ultimate fuel flow ? I'm guessing your working on removing the lean spike on activation ? Just curious..

You bring up some good points. Food for thought.

 

[Alky V6]

Do you have a NANO system?

No, I don't. It is generally recommended that you only use a nano system when you absolutely need it and you've exhausted all other options. I'm not at that point.

Luckily, alcohol has a very broad usable mixture range. Even when paired with nitrous. All I do is tune for the highest possible bottle pressure (a very hot race day) and the same jetting is usable when the bottle is cold (a very cold race day).

 

[Alky V6]

Are you opposed to using larger electronic injectors in place of the aux. fuel rail system? Those are 160 lb/hr injectors correct ? I thought I remembered your nozzles added approx. 100 lb/hr each . Is your set up tailored more for drivability then ultimate fuel flow ? I'm guessing your working on removing the lean spike on activation ? Just curious..

I'm trying to do it without having to mount electronic injectors inside the plenum. When the engine does backfire, sometimes a flame can be going on in the plenum for a moment after the backfire. That is evidenced by my plastic fuel rail. A portion of the fuel rail is slightly melted. I don't want to worry about an injector or control wire melting inside the plenum.

You're correct. The ultimate mission is to do away with the lean spike at activation of the aux fuel system. That would do much to simplify my fuel map. There's really no reason why I shouldn't be able to have driveability and adequate fueling. The trick is getting enough fuel to this thing. I've replaced the old fuel pump with a higher capacity pump, and now the plan is to add back in the old one and have it come on at 8 psi boost. Run 2 fuel pumps. I'll then monitor the fuel pressure to make sure the regulator is referencing properly to manifold pressure and I'll move from there. As it was with the old turbo, the fueling was maxed out. If the plan is to go for another 250 to 300 hp, I'm going to need a bunch more fuel.
Another option is to run a separate belt driven mechanical injection pump for the nozzles alone and run a much higher pressure to them. This is something I really want to do, but figuring out where to mount the pump is a bit challenging. Not impossible, but it will take some work. The initial plan is to run both the crankcase evac pump and the fuel pump off of the same cog belt.

But that's all getting ahead of myself. First, I need to perfect the mechanical fueling plumbing in the plenum. The rest of the system will be external of the plenum and will be easy to deal with.

 

[Alky V6]

Some may be lost with my explanation of an internal fuel rail so I looked up an old pic. This was done in somewhat of a hurry to try and make a certain race date. I was never completely happy with it.

 

[Alky V6]

The initial plan is to run both the crankcase evac pump and the fuel pump off of the same cog belt.

It turns out that both these components are required to be driven at 1/2 crankshaft speed.

 

[six shooter]

I was thinking of a single set of big external mounted injectors ( similar to the 550 lb/hr ones that Jay and Shane have ) and a belt driven pump. Seems a little less complicated and has less parts to potentially fail. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Alky V6]

I was thinking of a single set of big external mounted injectors ( similar to the 550 lb/hr ones that Jay and Shane have ) and a belt driven pump. Seems a little less complicated and has less parts to potentially fail. Keep us posted on your progress.

I'm going to try to do with what I have now. I can only imagine how much those big injectors are apiece. Not to mention, they're gigantic. Looking at some of the pics I posted, I didn't leave myself much room to go with a larger component.

 

[slimtastic]

don i have a question. your injectors arnt aimed at the back of the intake valve, wouldnt this cause fueling issues and a/f problems as the injector is spraying the bottom of your intake runner?

love the headers in the other post also.

 

[Alky V6]

don i have a question. your injectors arnt aimed at the back of the intake valve, wouldnt this cause fueling issues and a/f problems as the injector is spraying the bottom of your intake runner?

love the headers in the other post also.

Actually, on the top end, when intake velocity is at max, there's a school of thought that claims that injecting the fuel tangent to the airflow creates better atomization of the fuel in the overall mix. I have even seen it suggested to aim the injected fuel into the oncoming airflow. If emissions and gas mileage is the concern, then spraying at the back of the intake valve would be more important. Even though, as it stands, the engine idles extremely well and I have not experienced any ill effects, at any rpm, related to how I have the injectors aimed.
Good question, by the way.