Intake manifolds

[just plain john]

That car is insane.

 

[turbofabricator]

Donnie,
How's your flex coupling, at the exhaust tee, holding up? I've always wondered if they work well on the pressure side of the turbine. I have always wanted to use them, but was affraid of it comming apart and smacking the turbine. Did you make the merge collectors or did Burns? Looks mad scientist under your hood.:biggrin: Hope it all works out for you. Keep posting pics. I hear that if you drop two tablets of "Flowmax" in your alcohol tank, it'll REALLY help with flow.:biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Donnie,
How's your flex coupling, at the exhaust tee, holding up? I've always wondered if they work well on the pressure side of the turbine. I have always wanted to use them, but was affraid of it comming apart and smacking the turbine. Did you make the merge collectors or did Burns? Looks mad scientist under your hood.:biggrin: Hope it all works out for you. Keep posting pics. I hear that if you drop two tablets of "Flowmax" in your alcohol tank, it'll REALLY help with flow.:biggrin:

The collectors are Burns double slip merge. I'm not that talented.
The flex section has been in there since 2003. It's held up well except for the internal mesh it once had. The external mesh wire support that you can see on the outside of the unit was also inside the coupler originally and it eventually bunched up at the outlet end of the unit causing a flow restriction. The hole created by the restriction was probably no larger than the size of a quarter. I simply cut out the internal wire mesh. It's been awhile now since I did that and it seems to work just fine without the internal mesh. Interestingly, after I cut out the restriction, ET change was very minimal. I would recommend that if you use a bellows, get one that does not have any internal wire mesh. Another factor that you need to keep in mind is that my exhaust temps are lower than what you're going to have with gasoline. Don't know how the bellows would hold up with higher EGTs.

 

[Alky V6]

turbofabricator. I noticed on your Ferrari pics that you went with tuned length primaries. What's your feeling on tuned length primaries for turbo applications, and do you have any interesting feedback on tuned length vs simpler untuned length and log manifolds?

 

[turbofabricator]

turbofabricator. I noticed on your Ferrari pics that you went with tuned length primaries. What's your feeling on tuned length primaries for turbo applications, and do you have any interesting feedback on tuned length vs simpler untuned length and log manifolds?

"MY" thoughts are as follows: It can't hurt. Does it really make a difference? Not at all based on hours and hours of reading what other builders/fabricators do. If you really think about it, no matter WHAT way you build a turbo header, they are just a log, period. Some guys say big short primaries work best, others say long small primaries with at least 12" of straight after merge for best results. Some of the fastest cars have headers that were made to fit the chasis, no matter how they looked. So, in a nutshell I personally feel that it's log and spending alot of time or money making them perfect is a complete waste, almost or maybe, or maybe not. Clear as mud? My headers are out side the box, and there were some that siad it wouldn't work because there were non symetrical pipes leading into both turbos, and that would cause surging. Couldn't be farther form the truth in application, though. My boost is rock stable and NO surging what so ever. Does it make 1000 HP? No, but that wasn't my goal. My goal was to build something that didn't look like any other Buick. I hate going to Buick events, because if you look under the hood of most cars, they ALL look the same. I had to build something that looked different, but was functional, AND I could get rid of some of the crap laying in my shop. It lives and drives well, and runs 127mph on 19 lbs of boost. Probably the fastest stock turbo and stock intercooler car out there. (sure, it has two of each, but who cares?) Here's my header build pics: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/221466-new-twin-turbo-headers.html
What do you think? What are your thoughts on header designs? What compelled you to use merge collectors? (ya, the Burns stuff is SEXY!)
Ken, (just an aero-plane guy, with a TIG welder and a short circuted brain). Do your friends shake their heads when they come over and wonder why you don't sit in front of the TV at night?like my friends do:biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Long, tuned primaries are a waste of time on a cam that I would consider for the street. If cam overlap gets to certain point, then the importance of tuning the primaries will come into play. Still there can be a benefit at max torque using tuned primaries with a small cam, although very slight, if anything. As you put it, it can't hurt.
Long primaries can contribute to turbo lag, but if the components are chosen carefully or other anti-lag systems are in place, the possible lag attributed to the long primaries is not a concern.
The merge collectors do tend to dampen pulse tuning and rely more on inertia tuning, but they just look too cool to pass up. Besides, using a baffle type collector and then necking it down to a more appropriate collector size for a turbo system, in my head anyway, would look kinda wierd.

 

[Alky V6]

You'll notice in the poor picture I took of the internal plumbing through the open throttle body, that the tight bends in the feed lines, just before the nozzles, are at a higher level than the rest of the line and the distribution manifold. The control solenoid is on the other side of the plenum wall at the same level as the distribution manifold.
Using a momentary switch, I can energize the control solenoid for a short squirt and purge the internal system of any air in the lines. This will also allow me to test the aux fueling system. If I purge the aux fueling system at the same time that I purge my n2o system during prestage, then I should be set for a lean-spike free launch.
I could even wire in a delay box for the aux system purge to energize the control solenoid for a certain predetermined time span to prevent too much fuel from flooding the engine during the purge process. Just quickly hit the button and let the rest happen automatically. No worries of flooding the engine in prestage.
Now to reconfigure my fuel map. Oh joy.

 

[turbofabricator]

I concure with your header thoughts. True about the looks of the Burns stuff. They are PROUD of their work, though. BUT, I have "Tried" to build one, and man are they time consuming It takes a precision cutter, and a real trick jig to make them. I don't build enough headers to make it worth my time. Buying them ready made makes more sense, even to a broke poor boy like me. Now if I could find a place that sells small amounts of Stainless wool and or ceramic wool for a cool muffler design I want to make.
In the past, our biggest concern was weather or not our custom made HUGE nitrous valves would freeze open. They did on occasion, and would MELT a big hole through the head, bank, piston, and cylinder liner. The Griffon cylinder banks were actually not part of the 'block'. The crankcase was pretty small (in perspective) and the entire head and cylinder 'bank' was slid over 3ft long studs. The pistons had to be slid into the cylinder from below. Removable ring compressors (2 needed) were used. We would go through 150 pounds of nitrous oxide in a 4 minute heat. The driver had to flutter the button with his thumb on the sterring wheel. All the while trying to stay focused and turn the boat at 190 mph. Here is a old Budweiser promo. The driver in this vid was killed in the boat shortly after this video was shot. The theor was that the rudder bracket failed and twisted into the prop at 180+mph, causing the back of the boat to drop and the front to lift, creating a blow over. This was his third blow over, and everyone thought he was Ok. Not the case. A lesson folks, driving fast is VERY hazzardous! Our back up boat in 1985 was very similar to this boat. Our primary boat was the first boat with an enclosed cockpit. It is now a requirement. I am proud that I was part of the innovation that has since saved MANY lives. There has not been a fatality in Unlimited Hydroplanes since we engineered and built the enclosed cockpit. YouTube - Griffon Miss Budweiser Unlimited Hydroplane Jeff Neff is the sole reason for the enclosed cockpit in Unlimited Hydroplanes. Dean Chenowith was his brother-in-law, and as the crew chief of the Bud, he threatened to quit. Bernie (owner) funded the project. OOPS sorry for the hi-jack. If this kind of stuff is interesting search youtube for more fun vids.

 

[Alky V6]

Thanks for the link and the history info. I love hydroplanes.

 

[Alky V6]

Donnie, you could use a stepper motor to move the barrel valve, instead of a boost actuator. Stepper motors can be controlled to a VERY finite movement. That would probably be a better way to control the fuel curve.

I really think that -10AN lines are too big. They will have to be pushing the gravitational forces of one G (at launch). I know most people think that bigger is better, but most Sprint car guys around here run Methanol and 750HP through one -6AN. The pump has to fill the hose and fill the nozzles. I think that two -8AN will still be over kill after the pump. Feed the pumps with -12 or larger, though. Front mount the fuel cell, too. Better way to feed the engine. Electronic pumps don't make good sucker pumps, so let gravitational forces work in your favor.

I was reviewing your suggestions and I have a question about the sprint cars running -6. Are they running mechanical injection? And, do you know what pressures they were running? I can see -6 not being a problem with some of the pressures I've heard they run with mechanical injection setups. 75 to 100 psi in a blown application, anyway. Not sure what pressures they run in N/A.

 

[DailyDrifter]

I was reviewing your suggestions and I have a question about the sprint cars running -6. Are they running mechanical injection? And, do you know what pressures they were running? I can see -6 not being a problem with some of the pressures I've heard they run with mechanical injection setups. 75 to 100 psi in a blown application, anyway. Not sure what pressures they run in N/A.

I dont belive Nascar runs high fuel psi, probably well below 25psi

 

[turbofabricator]

I was reviewing your suggestions and I have a question about the sprint cars running -6. Are they running mechanical injection? And, do you know what pressures they were running? I can see -6 not being a problem with some of the pressures I've heard they run with mechanical injection setups. 75 to 100 psi in a blown application, anyway. Not sure what pressures they run in N/A.

When I looked at a local racers intake recently, I asked him if that was the bypass?? He said, NO, it's the main feed line. I asked him fuel pressure he said around 60psi. THen I knew I was onto something with regaurds to line size. If guys can run (apperently) 160mph on stock fuel lines, then a -6AN should feedn the space shuttle. The stock line necks down to .257" at each Saginaw fittting.

Hillborn injection is what Sprint cars run. (Not Nascar, by the way)

 

[Alky V6]

Thanks for the info, Ken.

 

[Crispy Chicken]

****ing badass!! nice work!

 

[GNBRETT]

U got some skillz Don.

 

[Alky V6]

Thanks, guys.

 

[BlackMetal]

The pictures in this thread left me speechless.

 

[Darkcyde]

The pictures in this thread left me speechless.

Da Don is an animal straight out mad scientist. the tb board is lucky to have him

 

[coach]

Da Don is an animal straight out mad scientist. the tb board is lucky to have him

I second that. I hope to meet him someday at an event. The intricacy of his machine work makes my trailing arms seem like pieces to an erector set. He is an "artist" in the truest sense of the word. Plus he is making like a 1000 horsepower , so he rules anyway.:biggrin:

Coach

 

[Alky V6]

Dang Coach. Thanks. I'm a little lost for words.