Major KR and sputtering, but only if I nail it hard from a stop

[BuickMike]

Just like the title says, it I hammer the gas hard from a stop or slow roll and the tires break loose, the car gets major KR out of nowhere at the top of 1st gear and the car starts misfiring bad because of the retarded timing as far as I can tell. If I let off and get back in it, it's fine. If I get on it from a roll, it's fine. If I ease into it from a stop or slow roll, it's fine. I can stay in it all the way into 4th and O2's stay steady with no knock.

Since I got the problem I have tried...

Different chips
Different boost levels (still does it at 12psi)
Alky and no alky

Replaced:
Fuel pump and hotwire kit
Plugs
Wires
Coils
Ign Module
ECM

Right now I'm thinking:

Is my converter too loose for my combo and it spools too fast for the ECM to keep up?

False knock?

Blown Headgasket?

Electrical problem?

Tired motor is fouling plugs with oil somehow? (I get smoke at startup and idle after heavy throttle)

I'm stumped.

Right now I'm not driving the car because I'm building a shop and then will rebuild the motor, but this problem is still annoying the hell out of me.

Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[rb68rr]

Mine did the exact same thing when the battery tie down came loose. It would let the battery rock back and touch something making it studder and show all kinds of knock.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Maf

Bw

 

[Marc87GN]

I experienced something similar when my tires are up in smoke. With the car vibrating like crazy, I'm not shocked the KR wakes up. Otherwise like yourself, I don't get any KR either and the O2s are in the mid 800s. I believe the noise we or I was hearing was the engine hitting the rev limiter when the tires spun.

It could be due to a loose converter especially if you added the converter before all of the mods. I see 5600 rpms+ on Turbolink and just bought a Protorque 10.5" more specifically for my setup vs the 9"X 12" I bought off someone. I would be interested to see if it's normal to get KR when you are spinning the tires.

 

[Momar]

My car did that for a while also. I am honestly not totaly sure what caused it on my car, but I know it went away when I installed the new turbo. I dont know if something was loose, or if it was just spooling to fast or what.

Ben

 

[oldtimer]

Just like the title says, it I hammer the gas hard from a stop or slow roll and the tires break loose, the car gets major KR out of nowhere at the top of 1st gear and the car starts misfiring bad because of the retarded timing as far as I can tell. If I let off and get back in it, it's fine. If I get on it from a roll, it's fine. If I ease into it from a stop or slow roll, it's fine. I can stay in it all the way into 4th and O2's stay steady with no knock.

Since I got the problem I have tried...

Different chips
Different boost levels (still does it at 12psi)
Alky and no alky

Replaced:
Fuel pump and hotwire kit
Plugs
Wires
Coils
Ign Module
ECM

Right now I'm thinking:

Is my converter too loose for my combo and it spools too fast for the ECM to keep up?

False knock?

Blown Headgasket?

Electrical problem?

Tired motor is fouling plugs with oil somehow? (I get smoke at startup and idle after heavy throttle)

I'm stumped.

Right now I'm not driving the car because I'm building a shop and then will rebuild the motor, but this problem is still annoying the hell out of me.

Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, have you checked the motor mounts. Could be the downpipe hitting causing false knock.

Also, you say that your plugs are oil fouling ??? Oil in the cylinders will cause detonation too .... real knock !!

Just some ideas

George

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

I had the same issue....MAF crapped out on me and the two weeks later it happened again....coil pak crapped out


gotta love these cars!

if only LS1 parts were cheap god I hope my car didn't hear that

 

[BuickMike]

Thanks for all the replies! These are great new ideas for me.

First, the battery is an Optima and come to think about it, it is not tight in there because it is shorter. I'll check that out.

Second, I don't think I ever changed out the pasenger side motor mount. Maybe it's worn. The DP is close, however I thought my engine tie down would take care of that.

Third, even though the MAF #'s look good it is 9 years old. I'll see if I can borrow someone's spare to see if that fixes it.

My plugs look clean, however I get a good amount of oil smoke at startup and and also if I romp on it I'll smoke when I come to a stop. My compression and leakdown is acceptable, so I'm guessing I have badly worn valve guides.

An engine rebuild is in the plan, but I'd like to figure this problem out so the new motor doesn't inherit it one day.

 

[SloGN]

Knock Retard

hey guys


i have had this same problem with my car and new speedo cable cured it. Now i know you guys are thinking i'm crazy but hear me out.

when the car spins the tires the speedo gets whiped upto speeds around 65-70 mph .when the tires finally quit spinning the speedo gets whiped back down to say 10-15 mph before it settles back to the actaul speed of the car.

well when the speed whips back and forth like that it changes the speed sensor also cause it's on the back of the speedo head. so your @ wot @ 18 psi of boost the car is in the PE mode and the timing is @ say 19 degrees. well when the speedo gets whiped back to say 10-15 mph the ECM drops out of PE mode ( even know your still @ wot) because it thinks the load has dropped on the engine because of the sudden speed decrease. well when it drops out of PE mod. The ECM switchs into AE mode that the timing is going to be way higher than 19 degrees. so thats the cause of the knock. at least for my car.


19psi of boost with say 27-28 degrees of timing on pump gas for that split second with cause the car to rattle hard.

i was getting 40 KR when mine would do it.

the onlt real solution is to mount the speed sensor on the trans like it should have been done from the factory so it not on the end or a 20 foot cable that can whip back and forth.

if you guys don't believe it hook a direct scan and record it. that how i found what it was doing. watch the load and the speed gauge and you will see they drop in unision.

 

[strikeeagle]

It's called tire-spin knock and it has been discussed numerously on this board and others over the years...

(suggest you do a search...)

strike

 

[BuickMike]

Strike,

Maybe I'm bad at searching, but I couldn't find anythinr really relevant to what I am seeing. The wierd thing is that all this started out of the blue which leads me to believe that some part broke and I still haven't found it yet.

 

[Alaskabuick]

Tranny bolts

Ok Ill take a stab at a theory I have.

My car did the same thing last fall, nail it hard and spin the tires and would go into major knock and retard the hell out of the timming to the point I thought I dropped a cyl.

This winter I notice that the tranny bolts were all loose and was missing two of them! Now this may not be the case with yours, but I would check to make sure they are tight. I have not had a chance to test the car yet, it is still cold, snowy anddark.

Dennis

 

[SHADOWII]

Same thing!

I'm inclined to agree w/ SloGN, w/my new combo, see sig, I get immediate K. the last time out, my TL showed 6125rpms on the tire spin. and it's usually on the first and second attempts at mashing it from a roll at 10-15mph. from a standing start, it goes max K! 3 observations-prime the alchy pump(on my 1st run w/new combo, I forgot to!) 2)tps at wot- mine read 3.26 3)smoking when breaking hard-intake manifold leak. which btw may be causing a cylinder to lean out and giving the knock indication.

I originally left the pvc valve disconnected to keep oil out of the intake &tb, and it would smoke if i let it idle for 5min. to warm up. only for a few sec. 10 at max. but if i were to stop short, it would do it each time. re-connected it and it still does the samething. I guess I will be going to the fel-1200's. and a catch-can. :frown:

 

[Marc87GN]

hey guys


i have had this same problem with my car and new speedo cable cured it. Now i know you guys are thinking i'm crazy but hear me out.

when the car spins the tires the speedo gets whiped upto speeds around 65-70 mph .when the tires finally quit spinning the speedo gets whiped back down to say 10-15 mph before it settles back to the actaul speed of the car.

well when the speed whips back and forth like that it changes the speed sensor also cause it's on the back of the speedo head. so your @ wot @ 18 psi of boost the car is in the PE mode and the timing is @ say 19 degrees. well when the speedo gets whiped back to say 10-15 mph the ECM drops out of PE mode ( even know your still @ wot) because it thinks the load has dropped on the engine because of the sudden speed decrease. well when it drops out of PE mod. The ECM switchs into AE mode that the timing is going to be way higher than 19 degrees. so thats the cause of the knock. at least for my car.


19psi of boost with say 27-28 degrees of timing on pump gas for that split second with cause the car to rattle hard.

i was getting 40 KR when mine would do it.

the onlt real solution is to mount the speed sensor on the trans like it should have been done from the factory so it not on the end or a 20 foot cable that can whip back and forth.

if you guys don't believe it hook a direct scan and record it. that how i found what it was doing. watch the load and the speed gauge and you will see they drop in unision.

Interesting theory. Where did you get the speedo cable? With many parts being 18 years old, It's no wonder why the car still does funky things. i lubed my cable and it still jumps around below 30 mph, but that's another story. I would like to replace if I can.