Mass Air VS Speed Density

[Grumpy]

After 5 years I still feel like that, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. Just keep reading and learning and it will get easier. Then start re-reading stuff

well thats why I threw a MAF out there. We also run the basic Translator. Our motto is keep to it simple and a no brainier. I have had lots of customers cars over the years that had all the bells an whistles .. They were in way over there heads and many gave up on the cars an sold em. Guys should set reasonable goals. A mid 11 street car is a blast on the street.
And of course everyone wants to run 9s now. On a $2/3k budget of course.

 

[mikestertwo]

I agree with Grumpy. MAF systems work very well, are easy to tune and are very reliable with the basic translator and LT1 maf. I'm running 10.90's@125+ on a very mild build with that setup. Haven't had to touch the tune since the motor was put in and that was 3 years ago.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

I've gone 130.8 mph in the 1/4 on a Kirban reman stock 87 MAF sensor. I think the record is in the 140's. The only reasons to upgrade is if you want to go fast, have a faster spoolup or want cheaper replacement MAF options.

 

[turbojoe1]

I'm seeing very good reasoning in ether set up, it would be wise for me (with no tuning experience) to go maf. But if I had help (with a good chip and supporting tech) it would be nice to have the additional tuning ability of SD with the cleaner under hood look to boot. Hmmm I like the fact that is many options, little confusing but very helpful nonetheless. Thanks for sharing everyone, I freakin love the Forum. You guys are great. Glad to be apart of the TB community!!! Can't wait to get out there to some meets with all of you.

Thanks Joe

 

[Grumpy]

I'm seeing very good reasoning in ether set up, it would be wise for me (with no tuning experience) to go maf.

Thanks Joe

you can play around with it and if ya want to move to SD just sell it. We also run a TT chip. We ran 138+ in the 9s with our no brainier street DRIVER.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

If you want to go SD having a buddy that lives near you to help you go through the process helps immensely. Most everyone can find someone close too. And the guys in the real world are just as great and helpful in person. My car will never see a real shop again since no one seems to have 1/4 of the knowledge as the people you meet through this board. Not to say there aren't any good shops that know the car, but it helps the wallet a lot when you have a garage tuner that owns a TB. My garage tuner does twice the job for half the money.

 

[turbojoe1]

Very nice very nice. That would be the logical way to go, appreciate the advice. I've never been one to keep things easy when doing a build. It's hard to keep things simple and be different at the same time. I'm accumulating all this collected knowledge you are sharing like a nerd with a note pad and a retractable pencil, while getting a super wedgie in my tightie Whities.

Thanks Joe

 

[we4Mateo]

I'm still with MAF. If I were to go SD, I'd go all in with FAST, but my car runs well as is. I plan on running the LT1 MAF until it can't read any more air, and then I'll decide to either go FAST or go 4" maf and extender extreme at that time. No reason to switch now though; I don't feel at least.

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Joe,

Check out http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/index.html good luck with your choices, welcome to the world of Buick Turbo's!

Chuck

 

[Daniel Jost]

I run speed density on my MS3/X and will NEVER EVER look back again at running a MAF system. I had my intercooler pipe blow off going through the ghetto once and after that I swore against ever running MAF again... Something just isn't fun about having a Grand National "Regal" that is dead on the side of the road in a dark ghetto at 11PM, it is funny how much attention that draws. The speed density with Megasquirt is "self tuning" and runs WBO2 closed loop correction so it is more accurate for fueling than the stock setup ever was. Since I did this setup I lost one intercooler pipe, and other than it being slower than hell you would never notice a difference in driving and I just drove it home before fixing it. This is not to mention how much nicer the engine bay looks without having a MAF and the wiring going to it or having to screw with a failing stock MAF or some translator.

,Dan

 

[BEATAV8]

Joe I think you want a nice MAF style chip from TT.

I have a MAF in my wife's car and TTSD in my car.

The wife's car is nice because it's a genuine 11sec street car with perfect street manners and it can be driven anytime in any conditions without any attention to the tune.
The TTSD is cool but it's also very much a "hobby", requiring lots of attention and fiddling. Lots of fun for someone who's really into it.

 

[TT/Ameasap]

Joe I think you want a nice MAF style chip from TT.

I have a MAF in my wife's car and TTSD in my car.

The wife's car is nice because it's a genuine 11sec street car with perfect street manners and it can be driven anytime in any conditions without any attention to the tune.
The TTSD is cool but it's also very much a "hobby", requiring lots of attention and fiddling. Lots of fun for someone who's really into it.

I totally agree with this. Go maf and learn/grow on these forums.... Then maybe step up later. You might not even want to. Your motor will thank you.

 

[turbojoe1]

Low 11s is all I'm looking for, anything faster I feel will take some the fun behind my point being clean, different, simple, but with a touch of modern tech making it cool/ fun all around show and go car. By that I mean I'm willing to put the time into it to get it were its a rice well rounded fast ass car, a lil neck snapping is perfect, my ole lady is a woos any-who. But I don't want to have the annoying maintenance and break downs, let alone expensive as hell set up or in breakable parts to go a little faster.

I'm really digging all the feedback I'm getting on this and it's all very good, experienced and or opinionated information. Im absorbing everything I can.

I really like the clean look under the hood, the little things do make the big picture look better. But I'm not gonna let that alone be my deciding factor in ditching the maf. I've never ran SD though, so it's you know something I gotta try sometime? Idk. I've either always had a maf, or carb, and some of the other junk. I gotta say I'm excited to try a new way of tuning, and to concur something new is always cool. I like a lot of the ideas mentioned in this thread and all is first hand experience, so that means something right.

All these different available chips or running software in conjunction with old ECMs, or what have you. I can't say I'm not a little skeptical of the difference in the end result. But with that being noted, all of the above is intimate to me and my mind set about Being the motor head I've come to be. Just another Motörhead to some,
but this is real car tech and it is hard to get a grasp of what everyone is saying. I appreciate all comments and input, every little bit of info helps.
But I'm confused, and why shouldn't I be.
Reading information and understand the dialog to some of the this data of VE, mass flow, fuel, and timing tables is crazy. Is my nose bleeding?

I hope I don't run into any nightmares, or blow my baby up. My ole lady will never understand this addiction/obsession. Or why she is not aloud to through away old magazines I love to read while I poop. Smh women......

Thanks Joe

 

[Pronto]

TT 6.1 chip, Powerlogger, wide band O2, translator and compatible MAF. Logging is a great way to learn to tune b/c you can go back and see what the engine is doing. Even if you don't do the 6.1 chip for tracking a/f the Powerlogger is still a nice tool to have. The correcting a/f ratio it nice though. It does keep the ratio very close to whats set. Regardless of what you choose you will have to learn something about the car's tuning. If you don't want to do that keep it stock.

 

[turbojoe1]

I'm still with MAF. If I were to go SD, I'd go all in with FAST, but my car runs well as is. I plan on running the LT1 MAF until it can't read any more air, and then I'll decide to either go FAST or go 4" maf and extender extreme at that time. No reason to switch now though; I don't feel at least.

Hey what happened to the gist?
I liked how you put it, but when I went through this thread from the op it's gone.

Thanks Joe

 

[we4Mateo]

Hey what happened to the gist?
I liked how you put it, but when I went through this thread from the op it's gone.

Thanks Joe

The server transition left a few things out. The gist is if you drive a lot and don't want to tune much, then stick with the MAF as even if you are at 90% of your engine's abilities, you'll be most happy as these cars are beasts. But if you need maxx effort, than go sd and get every bit of power from every rpm and load setting that you can. And it'll be very satisfying when you do nail the tune just right. But then the weather will change and you'll need to tweak the tune again. More tuning equals less driving. Less tuning equals less results, but some are ok with that. I'm sure there is power left in my car and that's where it'll stay. I drive 10k miles per year and don't want to mess around with a laptop. That's just me though.

 

[turbojoe1]

Thanks we4Mateo, the way everyone explained it, really helps to the see difference between the two in a viewable perspective. I will continue reading and collecting information. I am very well a performance minded person, but I don't plan on many miles a year. We'll see how that changes as I get bumps every time the sun comes out.

Thanks Joe

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

[QUOTETT 6.1 chip, Powerlogger, wide band O2, translator and compatible MAF][/QUOTE] With that chip installed do you have to have the laptop on all the time to make it work with the WB correction ?What happens when you do not run your logger and you just want to drive around and go shopping .Im little confused at this point .I was thinking of updating my chip the the 6.1 TT .

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Referring to the TTSD chip, with closed loop activated(done with the parameter's value, very simple) and target air/fuel ratio set, at idle, low throttle, mid boost, wide open throttle and highway cruise(all have there own parameter to set), I set it and forget it. Just set it so that if the target a/f closed loop would fail to engage, that the a/f would be a hair fat/rich. Also set it with the scanmaster and gas pedal, don't need a laptop. At the track it's a different story, I always use the power logger/laptop to review the run. And if the car would happen to get the power from the battery cut(security system, dead battery, ect.), all your settings that you tweaked in are backed up and not lost.

 

[Pronto]

[QUOTETT 6.1 chip, Powerlogger, wide band O2, translator and compatible MAF]

With that chip installed do you have to have the laptop on all the time to make it work with the WB correction ?What happens when you do not run your logger and you just want to drive around and go shopping .Im little confused at this point .I was thinking of updating my chip the the 6.1 TT .[/quote]

Once the chip is set (or left to Eric's specs) there is no need to leave the PL hooked up. It is just a recording device. You can hook it up and drive around to record what's going of if you want to tune or feel something is not right. I used the PL to find my stock MAF was dropping out randomly. I record every run I do at at the track.