Need pointers on Alky tuning

[Evans Ward]

I finally have my SMC single nozzle alky kit installed. Test switch indicated pump is working as engine stalled alittle at idle when activating test button. Prior to alky install, I checked my tuning parameters(SM2) and all were within normal limits. Without alky, O2s were high 700's/low 800's with 3 degrees of KR at 1-2 shift/spike running 18 PSI. Other varibles were WNL. I've only had the car WOT (since alky) a couple of times and currently have pump speed set a half way point (12 o'clock position) and spray on point at 2 o'clock position which I believe would be around 14-16 PSI?? WOT blast at 18 PSI shows 0 KR and O2's in low 800's. I noticed what appeared to be a mist or light smoke out of taillights during the blast. Did not notice any bogging. Where should I go next- increase boost at WG, or changes at SMC controller? I'll also have a RJC Powerplate on order soon so should I just wait for more precise tuning until that install? Hoping you folks can point me in the right direction to tune the alky. It is a seat of the pants improvement! TIA!

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Start turning the boost up until you get knock and then turn the alky up. On a street chip, you should be able to run 23-24 lbs of boost fairly easily, but the pump speed will need to be close to max.

I have a boost commander, so it is simple for me to turn up the boost and the alky from inside the car. You will want to test it in 3rd gear since that is where you will most likely get knock.

If the 02 is fine and no knock turn up boost. Start getting knock, turn up alky. O2 still fine, turn up boost and continue to do this until the alky can no longer keep the engine from knocking and make sure that the 02s stay safe the entire time.

 

[Evans Ward]

Thanks Black6Pack! I'll follow your lead and proceed with some increased boost. Forgot to add on my post that I'm using 100% denatured with a couple ozs Marvel Mystery Oil as a pump lubricant.

 

[blackshoebox]

Evan-what type of chip you running?? If you are running a street chip, you may be able to run more boost with a race chip, since the fuel enrichment with a race chip is for higher boost and timing. I currently run the RA 108 chip with 26 degrees of timing @23 psi, with no KR, 02's in the 790 range @the top of third.

If your going be racing the car on the weekends @ the track or maybe a local car meet, try it. I don't run the race chip for daily normal driving since it gives the car a little worse gas millage though.

Shoebox

 

[suburban]

blackshoebox

with your 108 chip do you get any transitional knock when you nail it off the line? I'm using a 23* chip and i'm ok up to 20 lbs when I nail it, any more than that and the alky it seems can't catch up. but if i nail it when up in third gear i can run up to 24 lbs with no knock. having hard time finding that fine line.

 

[Evans Ward]

Blackshoebox,

I'm running a Thrasher 92/AT for blues now for the street. Car is daily driven with no track times (yet). I remember reading some concerns about Thrashers and alky last year (incompatibility??)but hoping my car won't encounter those as I really like the Thrasher for the street. I do have a Jay Carter 93 and an alky profile chip that was burned for me by Scott Jones of Atlanta. Really want to keep the Thrasher on the car for obvious reasons. So I have some options with the chips with one being an alky profile. I don't have any 108/race chips. What type of boost pressures do you think I can run with the street chips? I've seen some guys on here that I think run around 22-23 PSI on street/92 profiles.

 

[striker_29]

I have been able to get about 23 lbs so far without any knock. I have a Jtesta chip that was burned specifically for 009's and alky on 93 octane. I still have some tuning to do, and my car is missing the intercooler shroud, so I think I will be able to go up when that is corrected...Mark

 

[blackshoebox]

Re: blackshoebox

Originally posted by suburban
with your 108 chip do you get any transitional knock when you nail it off the line? I'm using a 23* chip and i'm ok up to 20 lbs when I nail it, any more than that and the alky it seems can't catch up. but if i nail it when up in third gear i can run up to 24 lbs with no knock. having hard time finding that fine line.

I have got a little transition knock with str8 pump fuel and alky from a dig(anywhere from 2-4 degrees) but it does disappear in the next 1-2 frames on the SM2 once the alky comes in. I have also set my turn on point lower for racing from a stop(like 8 psi) and that seems to help. When i go out on the weekends or to the track, i usually spike my 93 octane with about 3-4 gallons of 110 octane and that elimates transition knock all together, and you can run the car a little leaner with less alcohol(lowering the pump speed). My typical mix is usually 9 gallons of pump and 3 gallons of race fuel. All this is with the RA 108 chip. running about 22-23 psi. The car made the dyno numbers in the sig with this tune.

 

[blackshoebox]

Originally posted by Evans Ward
Blackshoebox,

I'm running a Thrasher 92/AT for blues now for the street. Car is daily driven with no track times (yet). I remember reading some concerns about Thrashers and alky last year (incompatibility??)but hoping my car won't encounter those as I really like the Thrasher for the street. I do have a Jay Carter 93 and an alky profile chip that was burned for me by Scott Jones of Atlanta. Really want to keep the Thrasher on the car for obvious reasons. So I have some options with the chips with one being an alky profile. I don't have any 108/race chips. What type of boost pressures do you think I can run with the street chips? I've seen some guys on here that I think run around 22-23 PSI on street/92 profiles.

Depending on the timing on the chips and fuel enrichment, you should be able to run 22-23 psi. The RA93 chip, just does not provide enough fuel enrichment on the big end to run anymore then 20 psi from my experiences with it, but your running different chips. I would follow Black6packs tuning tips(I talk to him everyweekend at our local car shows) We both follow the same general rules when tuning with alky. Just remember a race chip will typically have more fuel enrichment after 3000 rpm, so if you don't like the #'s your getting with the street chip, have a higher timing chip burned and try it. I have heard of guys running 29 degrees of timing on pump and alky running roughly 23-24 psi. Thats sick stuff.

Shoebox

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Alky on setting??

I recently posted the results of some tests I did w/ the alky system on my inj test bench.
I found that the max psi of 60 [w/out boost being considered] took approx 2 sec to attain. Given that time repeated some 10 times, I'd look at turning on the spray sooner than @ the time 16# of boost was attained. An earlier "on point" will give the system time to be at full flow B4 hi boost is seen. [16-18 psi is about the max I'd want to see on no-led w/out the alky on]
As for the chips. The comment on the race chip is about dead on.. More fuel at hi boost vs a 93 chip will improve the performance even further.

My story and I'm stickin to it!!

 

[Evans Ward]

Thanks Chuck! I'll do a search on your post and read carefully. I'll also tweek spray on point for an earlier start with boost pressures. BTW, those blues I bought from you are running super sweeet! You guys keep Chuck in mind for your fuel injector needs (shameless plug!)

 

[suburban]

shoebox

I also spiked my pump gas similar to your recipe and it changes things alot. I guess str8t pump has it tuff with timing and boost till alky catches up.

 

[tim87tr]

I have been following the alky info for awhile. I just began using a borrowed translator and MAF awhile back, along with an extender chip for my red stripes. I just purchased the trans plus and a used LT1 MAF.

My question for the alky tuners is are you using the trans plus to adjust the timing and WOT fuel? Or is it better to just get a chip for the alky? I would like to adjust the WOT fuel and spark using the trans plus.

I may try to find the SMC kit at BG. Also, Chuck, that was good info on the inj test and turning on the alky sooner.

 

[blackshoebox]

Re: shoebox

Originally posted by suburban
I also spiked my pump gas similar to your recipe and it changes things alot. I guess str8t pump has it tuff with timing and boost till alky catches up.

I think there are many variables when it comes to tuning with str8 pump and alky. Did you atleast get better results with spiking the pump fuel, were you able to dial the car in??

1. You could be getting false knock from a lot of things(dp hitting frame, bad motor mont, etc...)
2. What kind of plugs are you running and what are they gapped at?
3. As fast as the boost comes in @WOT, the alky needs atleast 2 seconds to be @ full pressure(thanks Chuck for the info). This is something i suspected since i started messing with alky. So turn on point is vital to avoiding knock.

...if you are spiking with race gas, i have been able to run the pump speed @ 4 or 5 and have the turn on point around 16-17 psi, and the car flys like that, with fp of the line set @40-42, with the ra108 chip.

I will be doing some testing with the alky and my knew scanning tool(otc 4000), i will post results as the come.

Alex

 

[suburban]

Alex

I have been spiking with c16 enough to end up @100 octane and I have pump speed at 4 and it will take 25lbs boost from the hole with no knock. turn on around 10. this makes it hard to go back to 93 oct settings.

 

[blackshoebox]

Re: Alex

Originally posted by suburban
I have been spiking with c16 enough to end up @100 octane and I have pump speed at 4 and it will take 25lbs boost from the hole with no knock. turn on around 10. this makes it hard to go back to 93 oct settings.

Sounds exactly like my tune. So I assume your car is hauling ass now and you get no transition knock? The "sweet spot" for the te-44 is around 25 psi, i have been running that turbo for a while and it likes that boost level.

What are your 02's @ the top of third? 770-810'ish?? If they are any higher, you should be able to lean it out.

Alex

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Why spike with C116? I understand upping the octane, but if u use xylene you won't burn your 02 sensors.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Xylene is also cheaper, and higher octane.

 

[blackshoebox]

I prefer race gas of xylene, just because its gas and not another chemical. I have had some luck not frying o2 sensors using unleaded "cam 2" which is 110 octane for my mix. I think the unleaded gas is less harsh on the o2 sensor.

Alex

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Forget the gas, mix up some xylene home brew, turn the alky to max and you end up only running 25% gas and 75% alky/xylene!

I took my car for some test runs yesterday with the new dual nozzle setup. I had about 3-4 60mph kick downs and about 3 0-60mph hits and emptied the alky tank. This dual nozzle setup goes through the alky fast!!! I was running 25psi, with the alky on max and the EGT never got above low 1500s. So, I've got some tuning to do.