New to E85. Few questions

[turboc87gn]

Turbocliff what are you using for a converter and is your turbo a journal bearing or a dbb? I have the turbotweak chip with the 83lb injectors and a 9.5 ptc im tryin to decide which turbo to get thx

 

[turbocliff]

Turbocliff what are you using for a converter and is your turbo a journal bearing or a dbb? I have the turbotweak chip with the 83lb injectors and a 9.5 ptc im tryin to decide which turbo to get thx

The converter I have is a precision industries 3200 stall (would like to switch to PTC 9.5) and its a journal bearing turbo.

 

[BADNEWZ]

E-85 is amazing! We threw down 670 rwhp on E-76 with a 71 hpq and more left! Big Stuff 3 E-85 box with flex fuel sensor, Tuned by Ted A S2V6RACER

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tu...ry/348890-tsm-legal-gn-makes-670rwhp-e85.html

 

[turbocliff]

E-85 is amazing! We threw down 670 rwhp on E-76 with a 71 hpq and more left! Big Stuff 3 E-85 box with flex fuel sensor, Tuned by Ted A S2V6RACER

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tu...ry/348890-tsm-legal-gn-makes-670rwhp-e85.html

Bad ass. When you say "E76" does that just mean that the ethanol content was 76%? just like I think E85 is supposed to be 85% but so far have seen from 70%-80%.

 

[S2V6RACER]

E76 was showing on the sensor. We have seen E80 here so far. I am very happy so far with the power and tune with E70. We have surpassed our power expectations at this point and I have had fun working with it.

 

[Alky V6]

Step up on the filtration.. Got a set on the bench, now. E85 has deposited some of the rubber hose lining in the baskets..Some mysterious looking silver flakes too...
Sorry bout the quality.. Gettin shaky with the camera on macro!:biggrin:
The filter media in these baskets USED to be white.
E85 w/ rubber hoses, 1- 90M filter and 1- 10M...
We're thinking the silver/brass looking dust is tank materials, and perhaps bronze bushings in the pump???

The meth guys are using 3 filters after the pump, and no filter baskets. Better to pump some dirt thru the inj along w/ fuel, vs no fuel and a toasted engine, I guess. I'm not so sure this idea wouldn't work w/ "corn likker" too.

I use 100 micron pre-pump and 40 microns after the pump. It's hard to find stainless mesh smaller than 40 micron. And yes, do not use the thimble filters in the injectors, unless you plan to change them very, very often.

 

[1outlaw]

Bad ass. When you say "E76" does that just mean that the ethanol content was 76%? just like I think E85 is supposed to be 85% but so far have seen from 70%-80%.

E76 to E78 would be Spring Blend in Michigan and Wisconsin and should go away quickly. E85 summer blend should be the new shipments. My sites range right now from a low of 81.5% to the highest of 83.92% pure alcohol here in WI (and the low ones are due for new loads over the weekend).

 

[murphinator]

I think E85 is supposed to be 85% but so far have seen from 70%-80%.

"E85" is basically a marketing name for a series of fuels depending on location.

calling all these fuels "e85" by labeling the pump "e85" sends a consistent message to all the flex fuel vehicle owners so as not to confuse the consumer...

in warm climates like the deep south you are likely to see around 85% ethanol content year round , in the northern parts of the country you will only get around 85% in the summer.

70%e is the lowest concentration you should ever get from a pump labeled "E85" 70% is the "winter blend" you will find in cold climates.

in the spring & fall in colder climates you will get transitional amounts of ethanol somewheres in the middle of the e70 winter and e85 summer blends ( 1 outlaw could explain this better)

the reason for the lower e percentages in winter is to avoid any perceivable hard starting when its cold out.

also "E85" pumps are labeled as 105 minimum octane rating - this is the rating for e70 , e85 is closer to 112 octane but both 70& 85 % versions act like higher octane than the rating would suggest due to the cooling properties of the alcohol and higher liquid content to "quench" in the cylinders ( lower stoich)

many builds out there making more power on e85 than c16 not to mention the cars running on e98

 

[KevinB]

"E85" is basically a marketing name for a series of fuels depending on location.

calling all these fuels "e85" by labeling the pump "e85" sends a consistent message to all the flex fuel vehicle owners so as not to confuse the consumer...

in warm climates like the deep south you are likely to see around 85% ethanol content year round , in the northern parts of the country you will only get around 85% in the summer.

70%e is the lowest concentration you should ever get from a pump labeled "E85" 70% is the "winter blend" you will find in cold climates.

in the spring & fall in colder climates you will get transitional amounts of ethanol somewheres in the middle of the e70 winter and e85 summer blends ( 1 outlaw could explain this better)

the reason for the lower e percentages in winter is to avoid any perceivable hard starting when its cold out.

also "E85" pumps are labeled as 105 minimum octane rating - this is the rating for e70 , e85 is closer to 112 octane but both 70& 85 % versions act like higher octane than the rating would suggest due to the cooling properties of the alcohol and higher liquid content to "quench" in the cylinders ( lower stoich)

many builds out there making more power on e85 than c16 not to mention the cars running on e98

Good info.
The import crowd has been using this with good success. A local 9 second Evo has been running it for sometime as well as some fast Hondas. Seems like the local crowd doesn't like meth injection for whatever reason. I'm hoping to eventually make a 100% swap to it but for now when I go to the events and need everything out of my car I will be on race gas due to the fact I need a bigger fuel system.

 

[KevinB]

E76 was showing on the sensor. We have seen E80 here so far. I am very happy so far with the power and tune with E70. We have surpassed our power expectations at this point and I have had fun working with it.

I know sharing tuning secrets is not a common thing, but do you have any tips you found that work and keep it safe? Leaner than c/q16? More or less timing? Hotter or colder plugs?

 

[daves87gn]

subscribed

 

[V8killR4U]

Subscribed. Lots of food info in this thread!
I'd like to hear about what fuel systems people are using and info on the kind of boost and timing people are running.

 

[murphinator]

I know sharing tuning secrets is not a common thing, but do you have any tips you found that work and keep it safe? Leaner than c/q16? More or less timing? Hotter or colder plugs?

its a cleaner burning fuel so you can run richer at wot without pwer dropping off of fouling plugs - some go right into the 10's afr on a gas scale on e85

 

[KevinB]

its a cleaner burning fuel so you can run richer at wot without pwer dropping off of fouling plugs - some go right into the 10's afr on a gas scale on e85

That's good to know. When I add that much fuel using leaded race gas, my cold ngk's don't last long at all. At $3.50+ a pop, that gets expensive (replacing everytome at the track it seems like.)

 

[KevinB]

I will update this thread Saturday evening. I'm hoping to go to the track if my work schedule and wife let me lol. I will try to push the car but I don't expect results first time out.

 

[KevinB]

Just pulled my car back into the garage after my track outing. I towed it there even though the track is only 30 minutes away just in case there were any "mishaps." The track's conditions today were horrible! 95+ temps and they used gravel and sand to prep the track I think. It was so bad that everyone left after an hour or so because of the conditions. This left me, a few other turbo Buik's and a handful of bikes. It was not the night to throw an et on the board, but a good night to get some testing done else where on the track. After I realized the car was not going to 60', I pretty much tried to launch off idle to get accurate trap speeds to see what worked in the tuning department. I will use trap speeds since my et's were not important imo.

I made 8 passes in 4 hours, so I learned a good deal.
First, the test tube test showed I was working with e80 today (this was from the sample I took from the fuel rail.)

For the first pass (not really a full pass, but checking to make sure car was working...I always do this and get some flack for it but it makes me gain confidence in the car for that day.), I cut the balls off the tune and turned the boost down as far as it would go, which was about 20 psi with my 6768 and stock wastegate setup. This netted my a trap speed of 116. I pulled the old plugs and put in some new r5671a-9's gapped at .025 so I could get some readings for the rest of the evening. The data log showed my fueling was on par so I turned the boost up a bit.

2nd pass. My timing was set for 20 degrees across the board on my dfi from 20 psi to 30+ psi and 4500 rpm and up. The car went 121, on about 21 psi. The a/f ratio was about 11.1, with the dfi subtracting about 3%. I ended up never touching the ve table all night because 3% is acceptable to me.

The 3rd and 4th run I turned the boost up a little more and the car responded with a 123 trap. Boost was at 22 creeping to 24 at the end of the run. My duty cycle was at 90% so I never turned the boost up the rest of the night.

Runs 5 and 6 were more of the same, just me out there having fun I did read a different plug after each run. I'm new to reading the plugs for e85, so I was just basically looking for a peppered effect on the porcelain showing detonation. The plugs would never show any all night.

Run 7 I turned the timing to 23 degrees. Holy sh!t did it respond! I'm dealing with a converter right now that has some serious slippage. The car blew right through it in 1st gear and hit the rev limiter at 6900 rpms! Traps went to 124.3.

Last run was exactly 20 minutes after the 7th so the car was still hot but it was my last pass before the track closed. Same tune as 7 but I eased into the gas a little more off the line. The car went 125.2. I was very happy with that. That's enough for a mid 10 sec pass on a good 60'.

So, I learned that 96# injectors should get you mid 10's. E85 likes timing. No signs of detonation yet. Car spooled fast in 95 degree heat. A full tank of gas cost me what 3 gallons of what c16 cost:tongue: I'm wondering how long plugs are going to last. After 7 runs, the plugs still look brand new.

In the future, I want to take some fuel out, turn up the boost, and go to a track that hooks

The best part about today was......I had fun and the car ain't broke! And that's what it's all about.

 

[Kip]

Nice work Kevin, hope you enjoyed seeing my people today.


Take care, Kip

 

[daves87gn]

that for posting your finding, sounds like you liked E85

 

[MikeL.]

This is great info, thanks Kevin. On run 7, did your DC increase with the bump up in timing?

 

[KevinB]

Mike, the DC did not increase.
I really need to get a roll bar in this car so I can go to the other local track that works better.