Progress pics of my DLS StageII project

[ttypewhite]

Resurrected from the dead. I had a chance to make some changes on my fuel system and put it back on the dyno. Last night I was taking some rips on the street and sending Cal my data logs and he made me a tune to put me in the ball park. The car made 808 @ 700ft at 32psi (on straight C16). After 5700 rpm the car starts nosing over. Graph is not smooth. 3 years on these valve springs............. there done. Gonna call Dan at DLS and get another set. I am very happy to see it make good hp even with a problem.

 

[norbs]

Resurrected from the dead. I had a chance to make some changes on my fuel system and put it back on the dyno. Last night I was taking some rips on the street and sending Cal my data logs and he made me a tune to put me in the ball park. The car made 808 @ 700ft at 32psi (on straight C16). After 5700 rpm the car starts nosing over. Graph is not smooth. 3 years on these valve springs............. there done. Gonna call Dan at DLS and get another set. I am very happy to see it make good hp even with a problem.

Wow that's amazing, however not sure if its the springs, could you get more rpm with less boost ?it be ignition related?

 

[blackgn1]

Always really liked your car. Good numbers!!

 

[ttypewhite]

Wow that's amazing, however not sure if its the springs, could you get more rpm with less boost ?it be ignition related?

Its definitely the springs, I am barely getting 200 on the seat (solid roller).

 

[Alky V6]

That's interesting. I ran less than 200 on the seat for years with a lift over .710", up to a 7,800 rpm redline. It will be interesting to see if a heavier spring solves your problem.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

That's interesting. I ran less than 200 on the seat for years with a lift over .710", up to a 7,800 rpm redline. It will be interesting to see if a heavier spring solves your problem.

How do you know your car would have not made more power with A better spring? His car makes 800 with low spring PSI to some there would not be A problem . Not saying that's what it is but would be A good place to start.

 

[Alky V6]

How do you know your car would have not made more power with A better spring? His car makes 800 with low spring PSI to some there would not be A problem . Not saying that's what it is but would be A good place to start.

I would imagine that if I did have a problem with valve float it would have shown up as some sort of accelerated valvetrain wear. That was definitely not the case. You don't have valve float, and then have the valve clearances not change a bit for over a year.
There was also no difference in performance when I did finally freshen up the springs.
I should add, the cam was specifically ordered with tame acceleration ramps.

 

[norbs]

What is the spark plug gap? Time to step things up.

http://www.msdignition.com/Products...l/7520_-_Digital-7_Plus_Ignition_Control.aspx

 

[Chris Hogeland]

I would imagine that if I did have a problem with valve float it would have shown up as some sort of accelerated valvetrain wear. That was definitely not the case. You don't have valve float, and then have the valve clearances not change a bit for over a year.
There was also no difference in performance when I did finally freshen up the springs.
I should add, the cam was specifically ordered with tame acceleration ramps.

Did you Not have some lash cap in places they were not supposed to be? That might be Clue the the valves were bouncing around some. With the lash caps missing would that not change the clearances ?

 

[Alky V6]

Did you Not have some lash cap in places they were not supposed to be? That might be Clue the the valves were bouncing around some. With the lash caps missing would that not change the clearances ?

You're right. I did have that happen with one lash cap on the very last run before I put the car down for the new mods. I'm not sure what happened there. I did get up to redline on that last run (over 7,800 rpm), but I'd done that often on plenty of other runs. My normal planned shift points were 7,200-7,400 rpm. Sometimes I'm just not quick enough on pulling the handle to keep from going over that shift point. It's not like it wasn't still pulling just as hard at 7,800 rpm, though. Still, if the valves had been constantly floating, wouldn't you expect it to show up in the valve adjustment checks after over a year?

The cam card also showed that valve float was likely at 8100 rpm. That was no problem since the power curve fell like a rock after 7,800 rpm. That is most likely where the valves were actually floating on me, which was perfectly fine with me since I never had any intention of making 7,800 rpm a planned shift point with that combination anyway.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

How did your valve seats look on your old Heads?

 

[turbobitt]

How did your valve seats look on your old Heads?

Also had small titanium valves that require less spring
AG

 

[Alky V6]

How did your valve seats look on your old Heads?

To tell you the truth, I haven't looked at the seats yet. I would imagine they can't be too bad, again, since the valve adjustments stayed so rock steady over the years. During previous overhauls, the seats always appeared to be good. To the point where I didn't bother with touching them up. Those were also the beryllium copper seats.

 

[Alky V6]

Also had small titanium valves that require less spring
AG

I would imagine the valve material difference should only account for maybe a 1,000 rpm difference in the redline limit. Nosing over at 5,700 rpm sure sounds like more than spring to me, unless the cam profile is really that outrageous. Which I would imagine it wouldn't be for a street car.
I recently tuned on another Buick V6 that had what struck me as soft springs for what the customer was wanting to do with the engine, yet that thing easily performed to 7,000 rpm without a hiccup. Surprised the heck out of me. TA heads, stainless valves, short duration cam. I had the customer call TA a few times to make sure the springs were going to be enough for the planned 7,500 rpm redline.
That car was also running an Electromotive TEC3r engine management system. I don't know if that would make any difference.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

I would imagine the valve material difference should only account for maybe a 1,000 rpm difference in the redline limit. Nosing over at 5,700 rpm sure sounds like more than spring to me, unless the cam profile is really that outrageous. Which I would imagine it wouldn't be for a street car.
I recently tuned on another Buick V6 that had what struck me as soft springs for what the customer was wanting to do with the engine, yet that thing easily performed to 7,000 rpm without a hiccup. Surprised the heck out of me. TA heads, stainless valves, short duration cam. I had the customer call TA a few times to make sure the springs were going to be enough for the planned 7,500 rpm redline.
That car was also running an Electromotive TEC3r engine management system. I don't know if that would make any difference.

I will be the first to say it might be something else causing it to fall over up high but I think he needs more spring psi than what he has got. I work on A car few weeks back and it did the same thing above 4800 it would fall on its face. Change the springs and it pulled to 7000 no prob.

 

[Alky V6]

I will be the first to say it might be something else causing it to fall over up high but I think he needs more spring psi than what he has got. I work on A car few weeks back and it did the same thing above 4800 it would fall on its face. Change the springs and it pulled to 7000 no prob.

Well, I'm not going to pretend that new springs might not make a difference. All I have here is the seat pressure. No cam specs. No spring rate. No over the nose pressure.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from changing out an old set of springs. Springs need to be changed out on a regular basis. I'm just as interested as everyone else as to whether this will do the deal or not.

 

[Eticket]

I never made that much power, but springs fixed the issue in my old car. Didn't do anything wrong, but nosed over past 6krpm. No miss or anything. Freshened the springs and 7k was nothing.

 

[8 SEC 109]

You may want to check for coil bind taking your springs out in such a short period of time. I had a DLS build similar to yours that was is coil bind. Check your freeze plugs too, they may be held in by black rtv like mine. Check the timing chain too...

 

[lazaris]

Mike

Its definitely the springs, I am barely getting 200 on the seat (solid roller).

Mike change out those springs. They are the problem with that seat pressure. Put a good spring in there. Let me know if you need any help.

 

[ttypewhite]

Freeze plugs are fine, I have beated on this car for 3 years with lots of boost and no issues (street and track). There is no coil bind on the springs either. When I bought this TA head setup used it came with a 1.75 T&D rocker which really taxes the springs on street. I was warned about that by Dan, but it was all I had at the time. Timing chain was changed this year for preventative maintenance before I had Cal up to tune the car. If anything happens to this motor it's on me, Dan did his part, and I am very pleased with it.
I would like to bring this to BG this year and enter TSL...........We will see hows that pans out. Still have to get my brakes and control arms done by then.