Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
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What ever Mike and Bob comes up with, you can be certain it's going to work well!
Realistic and relaible methods for getting rid of the waste spark???
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Pretty sure he ran DIS4 in BOTH scenarios.
Mike Licht
I was here first
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Cal,
I get that, correct me if I am wrong but didn't he run two DIS systems when he eliminated the wastespark? In that situation he would have an individual coil per spark plug system, correct? 6 plugs and 6 coils instead of 6 plugs and 3 coils. Since the spark load would not be 2 plugs per coil but 1 plug per coil I do not believe that the potential spark energy was even close in the two systems. In fact I believe that the plug gap could have easily been made bigger as well with the twin coil system, with a nice improvment in performance from that plus the extra energy gained by doubling the system. Think about it this way. (Warning these numbers are for the purpose of discussion only) Lets say the stock coil can produce 30,000 volts, the amount of actual voltage it produces during an ignition event is whatever it takes to jump the plug gap, if it takes 18,000 that is what you get, if you stick a 60,000 volt coil on you still get 18,000 if that it what it takes to jump the gap. As cylinder pressue goes up the voltage required to jump the gap also goes up, when we reach the 30,000 volt limit we get a misfire, the coil cannot produce enough energy to jump the gap. That is where our 60,000 volt coil shines. In the single coil 2 plug example the 2nd plug that is fired during the exhaust event is under small cylinder pressure so the voltage required to fire it is small but still present this takes energy from plug 1. As long as we stay under the coil threshold we are OK, as soon as we go over we get a misfire. That is why I maintain in Jasons example system that there was more energy available when he was using 2 DIS systems and it is not just the simple elimination of wastespark that gave him the gains. As for current we will reserve that for anther discussion that is where the LS1 stuff really begins to show its stuff.
Mike
I get that, correct me if I am wrong but didn't he run two DIS systems when he eliminated the wastespark? In that situation he would have an individual coil per spark plug system, correct? 6 plugs and 6 coils instead of 6 plugs and 3 coils. Since the spark load would not be 2 plugs per coil but 1 plug per coil I do not believe that the potential spark energy was even close in the two systems. In fact I believe that the plug gap could have easily been made bigger as well with the twin coil system, with a nice improvment in performance from that plus the extra energy gained by doubling the system. Think about it this way. (Warning these numbers are for the purpose of discussion only) Lets say the stock coil can produce 30,000 volts, the amount of actual voltage it produces during an ignition event is whatever it takes to jump the plug gap, if it takes 18,000 that is what you get, if you stick a 60,000 volt coil on you still get 18,000 if that it what it takes to jump the gap. As cylinder pressue goes up the voltage required to jump the gap also goes up, when we reach the 30,000 volt limit we get a misfire, the coil cannot produce enough energy to jump the gap. That is where our 60,000 volt coil shines. In the single coil 2 plug example the 2nd plug that is fired during the exhaust event is under small cylinder pressure so the voltage required to fire it is small but still present this takes energy from plug 1. As long as we stay under the coil threshold we are OK, as soon as we go over we get a misfire. That is why I maintain in Jasons example system that there was more energy available when he was using 2 DIS systems and it is not just the simple elimination of wastespark that gave him the gains. As for current we will reserve that for anther discussion that is where the LS1 stuff really begins to show its stuff.
Mike
yes true but..., the gain comes from elimination of the waste spark.
There is a very good reason everyone in TSM switched over to distributors and it is not just because of hotter spark.
If we just want a hotter spark and retain waste spark, we can just simply add a DIS4. there is a HUGE difference in spark energy between non DIS4 and DIS4 with the stock coil pack and yet we gain nothing in power. It does really help the misfire because of exactly what mike mentioned but no difference in 1/4 mi times or dyno numbers unless it is curing a misfire condition.
TED A, although i feel you are only responding to this post to somehow get in a jab instead of a contribution, To answer your question, yes we also are not happy with the price or reliability of these units. this is one of the reasons we are holding production.
There is a very good reason everyone in TSM switched over to distributors and it is not just because of hotter spark.
If we just want a hotter spark and retain waste spark, we can just simply add a DIS4. there is a HUGE difference in spark energy between non DIS4 and DIS4 with the stock coil pack and yet we gain nothing in power. It does really help the misfire because of exactly what mike mentioned but no difference in 1/4 mi times or dyno numbers unless it is curing a misfire condition.
TED A, although i feel you are only responding to this post to somehow get in a jab instead of a contribution, To answer your question, yes we also are not happy with the price or reliability of these units. this is one of the reasons we are holding production.
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This is a very interesting discussion, even though you guys are talking miles above my head
Lets be sure it stays on the topic at hand:biggrin:
Lets be sure it stays on the topic at hand:biggrin:
Mike Licht
I was here first
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Jason, we will just have to agree to disagree on the wastespark issue. The MSD has many shortcomings the way it is used with our DIS4 and I do agree that it provides no gains used that way. It really does not matter, our production unit will not be wastespark anyway so, this will allow 2 steps, rev limiters and other features without losing sync, which I consder far more important, oh yea, HP gains too. Let me know if your interested in making the brackets for the coils I have some simple drawings and I am getting quotes now.
Mike
Mike
Jason, I contributed my opinion that I think the DIS-4 boxes are unreliable, being that you do not make the DIS-4 boxes and you use the DIS-4 boxes in your MEGACOIL setup I don't think that is really taking a jab at you personally, just the DIS-4 itself.
Take care.
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Ted,
Did you get my e-mail the other day?
I am having problems with my incoming mail server.
Got it. I replied.
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